Full Transcript
Circus Master:
I guess it’s not your lucky day, Blind Puppy. I am the Circus Master, and this is our home.
Blind Puppy:
Okay? Are you stupid? I asked you, “What do you want from me?”
Circus Master:
Patience, Puppy. We will get there. First of all, I’m very sorry that you are blind. Consider me impressed. You must have some skills if you made it all the way here by yourself. Let’s put those skills to the test, shall we?
Jeff Thompson:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson, and today in the studio, I got Jesse Anderson. How are you doing Jesse?
Jesse Anderson:
I’m doing pretty well. It’s nice out here. It’s good to be back.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, thank you for coming back. Jesse, can you tell people where they can find you on the web? All your stuff about gaming?
Jesse Anderson:
Yeah. Well, you can find me, lot of different places these days. The main place, I suppose, would be the Illegally Sighted YouTube channel, youtube.com/illegallysighted. I do have my own website now, illegallysighted.com. And you can also follow me on Twitter @BGFH79. And I’ve also been known to do some game streams the last several months, and you can find me there on mixer.com/BGFH. So, I’m kind of all over the place these days.
Jeff Thompson:
Great. Well, we got an email in and a request to bring someone on. It’s someone that you know. It’s Joe Quirk from Mental Vision Games. How you doing, Joe?
Joe Quirk:
I’m pretty good. Jeff, how are you?
Jeff Thompson:
I’m good. Jesse’s here. We’re all here. The main topic is Mental Vision Games. Tell us a little bit about it, Joe.
Joe Quirk:
Well, I started Mental Vision last year in March. I actually discussed this with BGFH, Big Man Anderson last year and asked him if he wouldn’t mind maybe consulting with me and my development team on accessibility. Because the software development company I’m working with, they really didn’t know much about accessibility and they wanted to get into it. So, we started, and I created a game called Circus Master’s Revenge.
Circus Master:
Well, well, Blind Rabbit. Looks like this may be too easy for a blind piggy like you. Let’s see if you can handle another challenge. I am not going to let my circus freaks be so easy on you this time. Your weak skills will be the end of you. We don’t feel sorry for you anymore. I will be shocked if you survive this round.
Joe Quirk:
We just finished the second round of game testing. I was told by the development company it would be released, but we’ve got to give and take because I know Apple sometimes takes a little while. So it could take three, four days after we’re finished and turn it into Apple for them to submit it and give us their yay or nay. Because they’re going to launch it in the App Store.
Speaker 6:
Breaking news: Circus Master’s Revenge has been released in the App Store. Download it today for free. Yes, free. It also has in-app purchases. Check it out.
Jeff Thompson:
Great. Jesse, you’ve actually worked with Joe on bringing this to light.
Jesse Anderson:
Yeah. Joe contacted me, like I said, about March last year. And he had found the Illegally Sighted channel and saw some of the accessible game videos. We got to talking about, “Yeah, you know, man, it just kind of sucks that the Somethin’ Else games went away.” And he wanted to bring some stuff back and thought I could have some ideas and input for Circus Master’s Revenge. And so, we’ve kind of been chatting on the phone and email and whatnot, and done some of the beta testing. And it’s pretty cool.
Speaker 7:
Right this way, sir. Just follow my voice, sir.
Speaker 8:
Huh? Okay.
Jeff Thompson:
That’s great. So, Joe, what kind of game, what kind of interaction is this to the end user?
Joe Quirk:
Well, I developed this game because there’s not really much for us to play, strictly for completely blind people. So, I created this game. And it’s similar to Audio Defense but it’s not exactly like it. The game functionality is similar, where you have your cellphone, your Apple phone or whatever, or your iPad, however you want to do it. It’s a 3D audio game, so you use your device as your weapon, and you use swipe gestures to activate your gun or melee weapon or whatever. And, yeah, it kind of gives you like an audio virtual-reality experience. It definitely gets your adrenaline pumping, that’s for sure.
Joe Quirk:
But this is the game, like Jesse said, when Somethin’ Else left, it kind of left a hole in our entertainment value. So, I decided if nobody else is going to do it, I’m going to do it then. And so, I started writing. That’s kind of the experience you’re going to get, but there’s a whole lot to it. I don’t want to ruin it.
Jeff Thompson:
So, Jesse, as someone who’s actually tested this, describe holding your device to play this game.
Jesse Anderson:
Well, like I said, basically you hold your device vertically, or you can kind of hold it… They’ve switched it now where you can hold it a little more horizontally. But using the gyroscope controls, you can stand there or sit in like a swivel chair, and you’re basically trying to hear the enemies approach you, and you target them. Again, if you’ve played Audio Defense: Zombie Arena, it’s a similar type of thing except for you’re not fighting zombies, you’re fighting this crazy circus of freaks.
Jesse Anderson:
And like I said, you’re targeting them and trying to get your freedom, and it’s… I will say, it’s not messing around, man. You’ve got to be, especially if you get a few levels in, it’s pretty challenging already. So, I’m just glad that we’re having more audio games, audio action-style games, on iOS or other platforms just because, like I said, there’s so many word games and things like that.
Joe Quirk:
Baby games.
Jesse Anderson:
No, I love some good old word games and stuff like that, but I’m more of an action gamer, too, so-
Joe Quirk:
Sure.
Jesse Anderson:
I love action.
Joe Quirk:
Those games don’t get your adrenaline pumping. We don’t have very many games like that where we can play. So that’s kind of what I wanted to bring back to our community, was games that get your blood going, gets your adrenaline going and where you’re like, “Wow, that’s crazy. Holy crap.”
Jeff Thompson:
So you’re saying put your seatbelts on, Joe?
Joe Quirk:
Oh, yeah.
Joe Quirk:
We got really great feedback, and we implemented all the feedback, pretty much. It actually turned out better than we possibly imagined it would.
Jeff Thompson:
So, Jesse, when you said a swivel chair, meaning that you can spin 360?
Jesse Anderson:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You pretty much have to. Like I said, even playing Audio Defense back in the day, it’s kind of like playing… I have the Oculus Rift and so I’m playing virtual reality, but it’s kind of like that in audio form. So, you’re spinning around with the gyroscope, and you might look like a dork doing it, but I don’t care. It’s fun.
Jeff Thompson:
Shut the shades, shut the shades.
Joe Quirk:
There’s no graphics for this game. They’ll be a screen graphic. If you are a sighted person, you won’t be able to see the enemies. You have to listen for them.
Jesse Anderson:
Yup, no cheating.
Joe Quirk:
And, then, yeah. So, eventually though, we’ll actually bring in some graphics. That way, as you complete a certain chapter or whatever, there’ll be graphics that will be unlocked. Sighted players will be able to enjoy it, but they’ll have to play it as a blind person in the very beginning, in order to unlock the graphics.
Jeff Thompson:
So make sure you have your device charged up because that charging cable could entangle you pretty-
Joe Quirk:
Oh, yeah. It’s going to eat your battery.
Jeff Thompson:
Kind of lethal too. There you go.
Joe Quirk:
I had a tester email me. She’s like, “Holy crap, Joe.” She’s like, “I played CMR for like 11 hours and my battery died. And I didn’t even know…” She’s like, “I thought my phone broke or something. And then I plugged my phone in and it said low…” She didn’t have low power mode turned on or something, so it just ate up her battery. Well, that’s what happens when you play video games for hours and hours and hours and hours on your cellphone, you know?
Jeff Thompson:
Well, 11 hours. I mean, come on. Not everybody… I can see 10.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah.
Jesse Anderson:
Yeah, come on, man. I’ve been playing Elder Scrolls: Blades on my iPad, and that thing sucks the battery down. And like I said, I think I’m lucky if it lasts four hours because it’s such a hog. So, eleven’s not too bad.
Jeff Thompson:
No, that’s a pretty good test of the efficiency of your design here.
Jeff Thompson:
So, when you’re talking about the sounds of the enemy, how do you create those sounds? Where do you get the sounds from, and what makes you decide what to use for what, as a designer?
Joe Quirk:
I have a guy, a friend. He was actually on the first beta test. He actually reached out to me. The audio engineer, he’s the one that created the audio engine for CMR. But he did an okay job. I’m not… didn’t complain about it. He’s on top of his stuff. But I was actually reached out to from one of the testers. He’s going to college right now for audio engineering. And he said, “Hey, Joe, I’m blind also. The sound effects on CMR are good, but I think they can be better.” He’s like, “Here’s some samples of some stuff that I’ve done before in the past. Check them out, and if you like them, let me know.”
Joe Quirk:
And I listened to his tracks and stuff. I’m like, “Wow. This is pretty good stuff.” So, I got him on the Mental Vision team. He’s been doing all the sound effects for the enemies and the weapons and special stuff like that. The quality turned out even better than what we originally had, so.
Circus Master:
You have a gun, blind genius. Listen, aim, and shoot.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, that’s great. So, with something like this, can you be wearing like probably Bluetooth, because you don’t want a cord.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah, you want to wear headphones. I recommend… wear Bluetooth headphone, some kind of wireless headphone. That way, you don’t mess with a cord or cable or whatever. But, yeah, if you’re not using earphones, you’re not going to be able to really tell where the enemies are located.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, yeah. You got your left, right, up. Yeah.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah, so.
Jeff Thompson:
Silly me.
Automated voice:
Please connect a high-end headphone to have an immersive experience. Double tap on screen to check if you have equipped your headphone correctly. Else, swipe left with two fingers to continue to the game.
Automated voice:
If you hear the sound through your right ear, then your headphone is equipped properly. Double tap on screen to continue to the game.
Automated voice:
Please log in to the game to save your progress. Double tap to log in. Swipe left with two fingers to skip login.
Automated voice:
In main menu. Six options are here. Chapter, shop, settings, how to play, crackshot [phonetic], and credits. Chapter selected. Double tap on screen to play the game.
Joe Quirk:
But, yeah, I told my sound effects specialist, his name is Igna, I told him, I said, “You’ve got to make sure CMR doesn’t get in the way of your school work, man, because I don’t want you to mess up and whatever and get bad grades because you’re too focused on CMR.” And I said, “School first, man. School comes first.” He said, “Yeah, okay.” I said, “If you fail, dude, I’m kicking you off the game.”
Joe Quirk:
But, yeah, he’s doing good. He found me, so I got lucky.
Jeff Thompson:
And just to remind people, when you’re saying CMR, you’re saying the name of the game.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. Circus Master’s Revenge. Yeah.
Jeff Thompson:
There you go.
Joe Quirk:
I think everybody knows it as CMR now.
Jeff Thompson:
We want to get some new users on here. So, highly recommended, Jesse?
Jesse Anderson:
Yeah. And I do actually have to also make a mention for the voice actor that they found for the Circus Master. He is actually really good. He kind of reminds me… He definitely has that kind of, perfect for that evil sort of circus master kind of guy. He actually reminds me of… When he says some of the lines, he kind of reminds me of the classic Mark Hamill playing the Joker on Batman.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, really?
Jesse Anderson:
… Which is pretty sweet.
Circus Master:
I am the Circus Master. And this is our home.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah, I got lucky finding him, too. I actually went to one of those voice actor websites to try to find somebody. He’s excited. And he’s done a lot of cool stuff.
Jeff Thompson:
So let’s take the listeners through this a little bit. You come up with the storyline, you hand it off to the audio guy…
Joe Quirk:
No, I hand it off to the game developers, the code writers and the audio engineer, and the project manager. And then I give a copy of it to my audio guy for the weapons and the enemy sounds, and he’ll create those. And then when he’s done creating the sounds, I send them to the developer team and then they plug them in.
Jeff Thompson:
Ah. So your audio guy just got a sneak peek at chapter three?
Joe Quirk:
Yeah.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, okay.
Joe Quirk:
I made him sign a nondisclosure agreement, so he can’t be talking about it, you know?
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. You too, Jesse.
Joe Quirk:
Jesse signed one too. Last year.
Jesse Anderson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, wow. So, this is really cool stuff. It’s kind of neat to see how this all gets… Are you using the same company, kind of like the guys that you knew, to work out all the code?
Joe Quirk:
No, I actually hunted. Because I was trying to find somebody to help me develop this game, you know? And I reached out to several developers, in fact. And the people were like, “No, we’re not doing accessibility. There’s no money in that,” and blah, blah, blah. “There’s no market for it.”
Joe Quirk:
I’m like, “I’m a market. Why do you think I wrote the game and all that stuff, and designed the game? Because there’s the people that want this game.” And nobody would bite. So, I went onto LinkedIn and started searching for game developers. I emailed this one game developer and three days later they contacted me and wanted to set up a meeting. We did a voice meeting. There it went. They said, “We want to do this. We want to get into accessibility. We’ve never done it before.” And I said, “Okay. Cool.”
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, that’s really neat.
Joe Quirk:
And then, yeah, that’s how it happened. I got lucky. I keep getting lucky. It’s either luck or destiny. One of the two.
Jeff Thompson:
Hopefully it’s both.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah.
Jeff Thompson:
Jesse, you went out to a convention to talk about accessibility. Well, that was in virtual augmented reality?
Jesse Anderson:
I went out to… There’s a conference that’s actually… This year was the third annual conference. They started it three years ago. A game accessibility conference in San Francisco. I went out there in March. It’s a one-day conference and it’s held, actually, the first day of the Game Developers Conference. And it’s literally right next door to that conference. The nice benefit of that is, GDC, the Game Developers Conference, is this week-long conference with all kinds of sessions and things for developers to get together and all that. But having that right next door as a one-day thing kind of encourages them. It’s like, “Oh, okay. Well, we have all these developers here, all in one place.” Make it easy for them, kind of give them… incentivized to be like, “Hey, maybe we’ll check out some of this accessibility thing.”
Jesse Anderson:
Last three years as I’ve been kind of paying attention to it, this was the first year that I went down there. And I did speak on a panel. It wasn’t just about virtual reality, but it was basically on game accessibility for blind and low vision people. And there were three of us on the panel. We talked about mainstream games and what we found helpful, what we found to be difficult, and it was a pretty interesting conversation. We talked a little bit about VR, virtual reality and augmented reality.
Jesse Anderson:
All those other sessions were excellent too. I mean, it was just a really fun day. And then in the evening, they had a little get-together, kind of a little mixer, where everyone could, you know, developers and everyone from the conference could get together and chat. I met so many cool people. Game developers and people at Microsoft and just so many players. I can’t mention specifics because I don’t want to leave anybody out, but I made some good connections there.
Jesse Anderson:
Game accessibility is actually really kind of starting to become a thing. Because in addition to having specific games that are designed for, let’s say, a blind gamer, a game that is specifically designed with no visuals, we’re starting to actually see more mainstream titles include things for people with mobility impairments, people with vision impairments. We’re actually starting to get text-to-speech support in some pretty big AAA titles. It’s not full support yet, but the fact that we’re getting there at all is something that I didn’t even think we would see two, three years ago.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. Joe and Jesse, where did you two first intersect?
Joe Quirk:
I’ve been watching Jesse’s YouTube channel for a long time. When I found a developer to help me develop my game, I was like, “Well, you know, Jesse knows this stuff.” So, I contacted him through YouTube. I gave him my email address and there it was. We’ve been actually communicating for a long time. Little bit over a year now. I still keep him updated.
Joe Quirk:
I got one thing to tell you, Jeff, though. This is how cool CMR’s becoming. There was actually a visual… a sighted tester. He played it for about, I don’t know, about a week and a half or something like that. And he sent me an email. He said, “Joe, man, I hate you.” And I said, “What?” He said, “CMR has ruined games for me now.”
Joe Quirk:
And I said to him, “What are you talking about?” So, he’s like, “Being a visual person and having to close my eyes to play a game that was as cool as yours has ruined games for me now. Now I’m not going to be able to go back to playing regular games on my cellphone, even if the graphics are great, because the 3D audio thing was just amazing.” He’s like, “I’ve never really played a game like that before.” And he’s like, “Holy crap.” So, he’s like, “I support you and you got my support and another click.”
Joe Quirk:
“Cool, man. Thanks.”
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah, see? Blindness ain’t so bad, is it?
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. He actually liked it better than his other games that he plays regularly. He’s like, “I can’t wait to play the whole thing, man.” He said, “You definitely ruined gameplay for me now. And I’m going to have to compare my other games to your game.”
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, that’d be great if you could ruin a lot of sighted people’s gameplay by them coming over and playing it. That’s great because having a crossover like that would be really cool.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. Yeah. We’re doing good, and we’re knocking stuff out. I think it’s coming together. I just started my own podcast for Mental Vision.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, there you go.
Joe Quirk:
But I started on Anchor. It’s a free podcast app. So, I just started it for just Mental Vision. As we go along, me and Igna, my sound specialist, will be on. He’s got a great personality. So, I think us just discussing stuff, new ideas and that kind of stuff we’re having, or whatever. I know I’m going to get emails from people, like, “How do I do this? How do I do that?” So, I’ll be able to discuss that on the podcast. Most of the time, people have the same issues. So, if somebody has an issue with it, or problem getting past a certain level or whatever, somebody else is probably having the same issue. So, if I just knock it out in one podcast, with the question or whatever, then I don’t have to keep answering emails all day long.
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, that’s great. So, that’s on Anchor. And you’re going to probably call them your “mental visionaries,” the followers.
Joe Quirk:
If you go to Anchor, I call it the Mental Vision Show. Mental Vision Show. So, you can search it that way, but I’m sure you can just type in Mental Vision and it’ll pop up. But I just was informed by Anchor today that my podcast is now on Spotify. I’m like, “Whoa, cool. I didn’t know that.” So, you can go to Spotify and search Mental Vision. It’ll pop up there too. I’m like, “Cool.”
Jeff Thompson:
Oh, there you go.
Joe Quirk:
So you don’t have to have, you don’t have to download. If you already have Spotify on your phone or whatever, or on your computer, you don’t have to download the Anchor app just to listen to the podcast. That’s pretty neat.
Jeff Thompson:
How else can they find you, Joe, on social media or any place?
Joe Quirk:
Yeah, I’m also on Twitter. I have my own YouTube channel, a Mental Vision YouTube channel. I was doing a blog, a weekly blog, to update people on CMR. I was messing around with the Hooke Verse audio set. That’s pretty neat. I love it.
Joe Quirk:
I’m starting a podcast, I’m not going to update my blogs anymore. So, YouTube is just going to be strictly for the Hooke Verse stuff. And I’m not going to do any more blogs on it. Because I think the podcast will knock that out. It’ll help me save time. We’re having to keep posting stuff over and over and over again, so.
Jeff Thompson:
You’re reshaping, redefining, narrowing it down.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. Yeah. Making it one easy place to go. One easy place to get the information if you want.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, great.
Joe Quirk:
It’s easier for me, you know?
Jeff Thompson:
Yep.
Joe Quirk:
Well it’ll be easier for people that want to know more about CMR or Mental Vision.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, great. We’ll put that in the show notes as well. And Jesse, if listeners… If you want to follow someone who’s all over the board on all the accessible games and stuff, Jesse, where can they find you?
Jesse Anderson:
Well, as before, yep. They can find me on YouTube. Youtube.com/illegallysighted. Illegallysighted.com actually is a good place to start as well. You have the YouTube channel. Last year, especially knowing that I was going to be attending this conference earlier this year and had wanted to do so for a little while, trying to beef up the channel and just have things a little bit more professional, illegallysighted.com came to be. I bought the domain. So, all my projects, links to different podcasts that I’ve been on, as well as the channel and some of the other projects that I’m kind of working on. Twitter as well, as before. So.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. I follow Jesse on his YouTube channel. I actually just downloaded the Mixer app on my phone so I could listen to his mixers. But even if you’re a sighted person, I would recommend listening to Jesse’s stuff on his YouTube channel or even his mixers because he does play games that people can actually see. He does pretty great at walking people through on how to play it. Even navigating the menus and stuff, even for a sighted gamer.
Joe Quirk:
Like I watched Jesse’s Mortal Kombat thing, or I listened to it, and it was pretty interesting. Like I said, if you’re a sighted person and you just don’t have the game and want to see what it’s about, go check out Jesse’s channel because he does a really good job at describing stuff.
Jesse Anderson:
Oh, thanks a lot.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah.
Jesse Anderson:
And that’s kind of what I… When I started the channel, it was kind of funny because I didn’t really have a clear definition of what I wanted it to be. It was just, “Hey, you know, we’re going to try this new thing,” because, I don’t know, that’s just what I… I thought, “Okay, we’ll give this thing a shot.” And I thought, “How can I differentiate my channel from the hundreds of thousands of other channels, let alone gaming channels that are probably just as numerous?” My thought is, there’s probably…
Jesse Anderson:
At the time, especially when I started in, God, 2012… It’s been going that long. At that time, there wasn’t a lot of people that were really taking a look at games from a blind or low-vision user’s point of view. And then when virtual reality started to become a thing in around 2015, that was a really, kind of a unique thing. Because here I am looking at virtual reality, and it has its total unique set of challenges and opportunities, so I’ve been also getting a lot into that as well.
Jeff Thompson:
I think it’s really great that you get involved in it and actually work with some developers or lend their ear to the situations that you have, the challenges they have, and share those. So they’re starting to make changes, starting to be aware of it, and that’s great. Bringing awareness to it.
Jesse Anderson:
Absolutely. In a way, kind of a cheap plug, though. I’ve been working with Joe for the last year or so. And I’ve actually, have been contacted by other developers, either iOS or PC or something like that. People can contact me through the YouTube channel or Twitter or my email address. I am interested in doing more. It doesn’t have to be just gaming. It could be gaming, it could be VR, it could be app accessibility, whatever it is. If you have questions or whatever, or other podcast opportunities to talk about this type of thing, definitely interested in that, and I’m trying to do more of it.
Joe Quirk:
Hey, Jeff, I have a question for you.
Jeff Thompson:
Yes.
Joe Quirk:
How can the listeners get contact with you?
Jeff Thompson:
They can keep listening to the podcast, because the outro I put on here is all about me. Blindabilities.com, @BlindAbilities on Twitter. And I’m @KnownAsJeff on Twitter myself.
Jeff Thompson:
So I’m looking forward to this new experience with Circus Master’s Revenge.
Joe Quirk:
Yeah. It’s going to be a blast, I promise.
Jeff Thompson:
Well, great. Joe, I really want to thank you for coming on. Jesse, you too, as always.
Jesse Anderson:
Absolutely.
Joe Quirk:
Thanks, Jeff.
Jeff Thompson:
Yes. Go check out Circus Master’s Revenge. Yeah. So thank you, guys.
Joe Quirk:
All right, thanks, Jeff.
Jesse Anderson:
Thank you.
Speaker 10:
(singing)
Jeff Thompson:
It was great having Joe and Jesse on the show, so be sure to go check out Circus Master’s Revenge on the App Store. Download it today. And be sure to check out the Blind Abilities skill on your Amazon device. You can enable it just by saying, “Enable Blind Abilities.” And most of all, I want to thank you, the listeners. I want to thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed. And until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff Thompson:
For more podcasts with the blindness perspective:
Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com On Twitter @blindabilities
Download our app from the App store:
‘Blind Abilities’; that’s two words.
Or send us an e-mail at:
Thanks for listening.
*****
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