Full Transcript
Jyotsna:
We are dedicated at looking at the accessibility of our products, and we definitely want to improve the experience that you have with our products.
Jeff:
Please welcome Jyotsna Kaki, Accessibility Testing Program Manager at Google.
Jyotsna:
One of the things I’m proud of is where I started and where I am right now. I think I started as a simple, low level testing engineer where now I’m the subject matter expert on IT. I manage the team of experts who perform accessibility testing.
Jeff:
Helping improve the accessibility and usability of Google Suites and Google products.
Jyotsna:
Just to make this world a little bit to the degree, tad bit more accessible the websites, what this feature does is it will take a look at the images, which are missing alt text. And if it can, provide a reasonable or a meaningful alt text for it. It adds that automatically.
Jeff:
Creating her own job position and learning to believe in herself.
Jyotsna:
I’m like, “Yeah, mom, I didn’t get it. I’m a failure. I’m not getting it.” She said, “What? Congratulations. You got the job.” I’m like, “Mom, I didn’t get it. Mom, I didn’t get it. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you say I got the job?” She’s like, “Yup, you got a job.” And from that point, any other details she gave me, nothing got processed. The moment I hung up the phone, my mom and I held onto each other and we were jumping around the whole house. Bonkers.
Jeff:
Please welcome Jyotsna Kaki.
Jyotsna:
What I really love is that I truly feel like Google is an equal opportunity employer.
Jeff:
And from Blind Abilities: That Blind Tech Show, Brian Fischler, Serena Gilbert, and myself, Jeff Thompson. We hope you enjoy.
Jyotsna:
It might be hard to believe in what I’m saying. I would say one thing that is going to be very important for everybody is to believe in yourself. If you don’t believe in yourself, trust me, no one is going to believe in you.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities: That Blind Tech Show, and today in the studio we have Jyotsna Kaki, and she is Google’s Accessibility Testing Program Manager. Welcome, Jyotsna.
Jyotsna:
Thank you very much.
Jeff:
And with us also, we have Serina Gilbert.
Serina:
Thank you so much, Jeff. It’s so nice to meet you, Jyotsna. And I’m probably going to be like a fan girl today because I’ve recently developed a love for Google and G Suite. So just be patient with me.
Jyotsna:
That’s great news.
Jeff:
And Brian Fischler.
Brian:
Excited to be here, Jyotsna. I have just actually started learning JAWS and the PC. I’m a Mac guy, so I am kind of the newbie to Google G Suite. So I’m learning as we go.
Jyotsna:
Nice.
Jeff:
Jyotsna, why don’t you tell us about yourself and what you do at Google?
Jyotsna:
Sure. Well, I’m a program manager, and I manage the central accessibility testing team. My team basically helps various product teams across Google to perform accessibility testing. My team also provides training to other product teams that are trying to get ramped up on performing accessibility testing. That’s just I would say some of the major thing, and I’m also kind of known as a subject matter expert and also the point of contact in the company when it comes to accessibility testing.
Jeff:
So you do actually the products itself too?
Jyotsna:
Yes. Back when I started at Google, I used to be a test engineer, and I used to do accessibility testing myself. And over time have grown and I have built a team that now does the accessibility testing. But still even now, every now and then I do test some products out. Also, I actively participate in user studies and everything so that we can start looking into thinking about the idea of accessibility from very early stages.
Jeff:
Oh great. Well, I myself too, I’m excited because I work with a lot of transition age students and I know a lot of them use Google Suites and Google Docs, all the products, K through 12. And it really seems interesting now to see a lot more companies starting to use the Google Suites at their companies and stuff. So it seems like it’s making a big giant leap, and Serina is one that is using those right now too at her work.
Jyotsna:
Nice. Yeah. I’ve heard like many universities are starting to use G Suite products because this online classroom thing has been the trend and especially more so now during the COVID situation. Definitely I know, the usage of G Suite is definitely increasing.
Jeff:
Yeah. I was wondering like what is your daily routine like? Do you wake up with a Google alarm clock? I mean, but like apps and stuff like that. What’s your routine like from work to play to your daily schedule with the Google line of products?
Jyotsna:
I do. Actually, it is funny. I do have a Google Home Mini in my bedroom and that is my alarm clock. Once I wake up in the morning, more often than not, I end up checking my calendar and also to see if anybody from office pinged me over Hangouts on my corporate phone. Once I do a quick check… I do actually use many of the Google Suite products on a regular basis. For example, I’m using Google Calendar to check my events, to create events, and also sometimes to set reminders. Oftentimes even for my personal use, I have a little bit of a hard time having my husband remember certain things, so I always add things to his calendar, which is a good reminder for him. And then once he go to work, I’m checking my rent, also creating events.
Jyotsna:
Similarly, we are using Google Hangout at work both for doing IM, as well as doing video conference calls. For example, as you may know, our mountain view campus is quite big. It becomes sometimes of a hurdle for me to go to a meeting physically if the building is farther away, so I end up just taking the meetings from my building, just using Hangouts to do video conference. And, of course, I’m using Gmail to check emails, send emails, all of that. And I oftentimes use docs and spreadsheets, both for personal use as well as corporate. All of my documents, because I manage a team, I have a lot of documentation that I’m maintaining, also a lot of guidelines, instructions, everything. I do all of that on docs and spreadsheets.
Jyotsna:
For personal usage, most of the time I’m creating like logs, like for example, a medical log for my daughter or for myself, also documents, recipes. I love to cook, so I have all of my recipes in Google Docs so that I can access it from any computer anytime I need it. Similarly, I’m also using slides to do presentations at work. I also use Google Forms specifically because, like I said, I have a team and we support a wide range of product teams across Google. When product teams need us to perform any type of testing for them, they fill out a form I have created which collects the data that we need to perform the testing. And these are I would say just few ways of many other ways that I use many of the G Suite products.
Jyotsna:
And I would say having all these available definitely makes my life much more manageable and easier. Otherwise, I don’t know. I probably would have lost it.
Brian:
I think we’ve all probably gone through those times when we probably would have lost it if technology had not been there for us now.
Jyotsna:
Definitely.
Brian:
Yeah, definitely. I work with students from the age… I’ve trained students from the age of 12 to 102, pretty wide range, and I primarily have focused on the Mac and iOS side. And as I mentioned, I’ve just dipped my toe recently into the PC side of things. And I was kind of curious, to somebody that maybe is getting ready to use a screen reader for the first time and somebody that maybe has to use a magnification program for the first time, what would you suggest as far as ease of access goes to really throwing themselves into using all of Google Suite?
Jyotsna:
I’d say Google Suite products work on all platforms, whether it’s Windows, Mac, or Chrome. However, if you are not used to a particular screen leader, I personally have found ChromeVox to be the easiest one to learn. I am well worst with JAWS, NVDA, also a couple of other screen leaders on Windows, as well as VoiceOver on Mac and ChromeVox on Chrome. And I have found that, and I’ve also spoken to other individuals and they find it easier and faster to get acquainted with using ChromeVox. And definitely you can use that with G Suite products because all of those are online. And, of course, Chrome OS is only online, so all of that will work just perfectly fine. But if you’re used to a particular screen reader, I would say G Suite will role work with that screen reader without any problems.
Brian:
I’ve played around with ChromeVox on the Mac a little. For somebody that might be working on Mac and PC, I imagine ChromeVox would work really pretty close in the same way as it works on one operating system as opposed to the other. It would really make that individual’s life a lot easier than learning maybe JAWS and VoiceOver.
Jyotsna:
That is definitely true. However, the ChromeVox on Windows and Mac is an extension, which is not recommended in a sense because it is a deprecated extension kind of a thing. I mean, it’s there, but what is more so recommended is having it on Chrome OS. But it does work, yes, like you mentioned, yes.
Serina:
And we’ve had a lot of members of our community that really weren’t fully aware of how robust the accessibility is in the G Suite products. Where would you suggest that they look for maybe getting training and having access to training materials to learn how to use all of the G Suite products with accessibility in mind?
Jyotsna:
Sure. You can definitely access the help center docs, as well as onboarding videos by going to g.co/gsuiteaccessibility, all one word. You can go there and you’ll have onboarding videos, as well as some help center docs. One more feature you can definitely use is the G Suite products they have certain keyboard shortcuts which are implemented and you can do a quick reference to these keyboard shortcuts by when you’re in the product, if you press the question mark, it will pull up a window which lists different keyboard shortcuts. That’s a quick reference guide to view the keyboard shortcuts. But to see the full detailed video, as well as a help center doc, you can go to the URL I just stated, which is g.co/gsuiteaccessibility.
Serina:
Yeah, I’ve definitely used that question mark feature more than a few times. Another feature that I found super, super helpful was the ability to search the help menus for specific functions. Like if you’re like, oh gosh, how do I bold this? You can just type in bold and it pops up right there. I love that feature. I don’t know any other products that have that type of feature built into it.
Jyotsna:
Yes. Oftentimes even though I use Docs and Drive and any G Suite product quite often, every now and then they are certain keyboard shortcuts I always end up forgetting and I always pull up the question mark because it’s right there, zips out, escape, close, done, and I can get right back to work.
Brian:
Some people in the accessibility community, in the blindness community, they just come at it and they just say, “Oh, well, G Suite, it seems completely inaccessible.” What do you say to people that say that?
Jyotsna:
Well, we do test different products on different platforms using various screen readers, and we do observe difference in behavior. We are dedicated to look into accessibility. If you do have specific feedback or specific issues you find, we really would appreciate if you could submit a feedback so that we can take a look at it because we are dedicated at looking at the accessibility of our products, and we definitely want to improve the experience that you have with our products. We would really appreciate any feedback that you have to pass it on to us.
Brian:
And somebody who, like I said, has just started playing around with Gmail and several other of Google’s products on the PC, I just made use of the fantastic through Be My Eyes connecting to Google recently and that worked very, very well.
Jyotsna:
Nice.
Serina:
And if our listeners do encounter say an accessibility bug or something that they think isn’t reacting the way that it’s intended, what’s the best way for them to provide you that feedback? And what’s the best information for them to include in whatever feedback that they’re giving you?
Jyotsna:
Sure. We do have disability support group. You can contact us at g.co/disabilitysupport, one word, or there’s also specific ways. For example, you’re looking at a specific app or a product, oftentimes you’ll find a feedback link there. You can also click on that link and provide us feedback right there. You can do it either one of these ways. However, one request, when you’re submitting feedback, providing as much detailed information as possible would be great, such as what kind of an issue you’re exactly observing, steps to reproduce, what versions of screen readers are you using, which browsers you are using, which OS you are using.
Jyotsna:
Because oftentimes just a smallest version difference in any one of them can vary the result, and it would make it that much harder for us to repro the issue to get to the bottom of it. The more the detail you can provide, all these words and numbers would be a great help and help us repro the issue, look into it, and possibly even fix it.
Serina:
I think that’s awesome. We appreciate you sharing that because I think people sometimes just don’t really know what feedback should I provide. I’m sure you guys get tons and tons of emails. It’s probably hard to individually respond to each one and say, “I need more information,” and whatnot.
Jyotsna:
See, that is the other thing. Oftentimes, it happens. I mean, that’s common human nature is when somebody submits a request, they might expect an answer. We may not always be able to provide an answer, or we may not be able to reply, but that doesn’t mean that your feedback is not being taken look at. We will be taking a look at the feedback, but we may not end up replying to you specifically to your feedback, because like I mentioned, we get a lot of feedback, a lot of queries. So we may not be able to answer those questions back, but we will look into the issues which are reported.
Jyotsna:
And we do have a team that is looking into all of these issues, filtering through them, and even trying to reproduce the issues to get to the bottom of this, and then assign the issues to the relevant product team so that the product teams can take a look at it and try to fix it up.
Brian:
Sometimes in the blindness community, we are not the most patient about getting our issues fixed. Curious, just right now, obviously things are a lot different. I imagine a lot of Google’s employees are working from home. Are you seeing a delay in response time to issues that you are responding to, or even working from home, things are getting handled pretty quickly?
Jyotsna:
I would say things are still getting handled pretty quickly. Honestly speaking, I don’t know on the first hand as to the response rate for the queries coming in through the customers. However, we do have some channels where the feedback comes from. And one of the channels that I view every now and then, I have been noticing that the feedback is still constantly coming through. We are all still working at a full capacity, even though we are working from home. Yeah.
Brian:
That’s fantastic to hear.
Jeff:
Yeah. And we’ll put all these links in the show notes for the listeners to just click on if they need them or copy them and put them in their own resource list.
Jyotsna:
Perfect.
Serina:
I remember seeing in the past opportunities for individuals to submit to be part of a beta testing team. Is that still a program that exists? And if so, how would our listeners be able to submit a request to join that?
Jyotsna:
Sure. Yes, there are still opportunities to become a beta tester. And if anybody is interested in doing so, they can go to google.com/accessibility. Under research section, you can click on and go through the process of becoming a trusted tester. Once the applications are received, there is a team who looks at the applications, and based on their availability and opportunity, they reach out to the applicants in this situation. Let’s say if there’s 10 seats available, then they’ll reach out based on the profiles and things like that, but you can definitely sign up over there for a possibility of becoming a beta tester.
Serina:
And is that something where if you submitted in the past, does it kind of expire or drop off? Should you renew it if you’re still interested, even maybe if it’s been like a year or two?
Jyotsna:
I don’t believe it gets dropped off. I believe that it’s still in the database.
Serina:
Perfect. Sorry, I guess I’m asking tons of questions. I apologize.
Jyotsna:
Not at all.
Serina:
One online feature that came out I want to say maybe a few months ago, maybe even up to six months ago, is the automatic image descriptions in Google Chrome. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about that and how that project came to become a reality?
Jyotsna:
One of the things we were looking at is one of the frustrations that many visually impaired users using screen readers is there are so many websites with images missing labels. Oftentimes that ends where the screen reader just says image or a graphic or it reads. The link behind it just becomes very frustrating to the screen reader users. Just to make this world a little bit to the degree, tad bit more accessible the websites, what this feature does is it will take a look at the images, which are missing alt text. And if it can, provide a reasonable or a meaningful alt text for it. It adds that automatically. And you can enable this feature by either going to settings or by pulling up the context menu. And in the context menu, there’s a checkbox for automatic image captions.
Jyotsna:
And once you click that, then as you’re navigating through the website, it will read off the alt text that it has come up with. It’s pretty easy to use. It’s straight forward. You just enable the setting and that’s it. It will start working from there. And it will only do it for ones which does not have alt text, so it will not do a double. If it already has alt text, it will not provide it for those. It will only do it for the ones which don’t. Out of the ones that doesn’t have it, if it thinks it can provide a reasonable alt text, then only if will do it.
Brian:
You’ve worked in several different areas at Google throughout your career. What accomplishment or accomplishments are you most proud of while at Google?
Jyotsna:
I would say one of the things I’m proud of is where I started and where I am right now. I think I started as a simple, low level test engineer, where now I’m the subject matter expert on IT. I manage the team of experts who perform accessibility testing. When I started at Google, my knowledge about accessibility I would say was rather minor. I was kind of surprised that I got into Google. It did come as a surprise, and I was like, okay, I better keep quiet. I might have slipped through the cracks. And now I’m loud and proud. I’m not ashamed of that, and I’m like, you know what? People that cross the company reach out to me asking for my help because they know I’m the subject matter expert, and I feel I’ve come a long way.
Brian:
That’s fantastic. Thanks for that.
Jeff:
Jyotsna, your team also trains others at Google on testing products.
Jyotsna:
Yes.
Jeff:
That’s really cool that others throughout the company are being taught how to test for accessibility. I mean, that just helps everybody.
Jyotsna:
Definitely. Yeah. My team specifically focuses on doing only accessibility testing, and we also do the accessibility testing for other product teams. And simultaneously, product teams when they’re hiring new individuals, they want to get their existing team trained to do accessibility testing. We go in, we provide the training, and we ensure that we are confident that they can do the testing on their own. And then people want – like that. And oftentimes product teams, they come back and they say, “We’re not too confident with our team. Can you make sure that you’re doing it properly?” So my team definitely is known as a subject matter expert team across the company.
Jeff:
That’s great.
Brian:
Google is constantly coming out with new products and everything. Is there anything particularly exciting on the horizon for people in the disability community?
Jyotsna:
I would say one of the products that I currently am very excited about is Lookout. I’m not sure if you guys have heard about this product.
Brian:
I’ve seen that app at the convention.
Jyotsna:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Exactly. And it is developing quite a bit and changing quite a bit because I have been using it and trying it out from the early stages, and I have seen a lot of difference has been implemented into it. It’s basically an app which can help individuals with disabilities. For example, it has different modes. It has, for example, a product identification mode where it has a database of products in it. You can take a food product and you can hold your phone camera in front of it. And if it recognizes the product, it will read off what that product is. Similarly, there are other modes such as quick read. Quick read is like where you want to read some text, like some brief text in a sense. You can just hold up the camera and have a read off the text to you.
Jyotsna:
It also has a document scan where let’s say, for example, you get a letter in the mail. You don’t know what it is. So you can just hold the camera and it will read off the text from the sheet of paper. This product is really exciting to me because I personally… I was not always blind. After losing blind, for me, it was very important to be as independent as possible. And even until this day, when they’re even the smallest things where I have to depend on somebody else, for example, like I mentioned, I love cooking. When I find a new packet of spice from my spice cabinet and I’m like, oh shoot, I don’t know what the spice is, I just pull up this app and take a look at it. Or for example, just today I was cleaning up the garage and I found a sheet of paper.
Jyotsna:
I’m like, I don’t know, should I throw it in the garage? But I’m like, I know if I throw it in the garage and if it’s something that belongs to my husband and it’s important, he’s going to kill me. So then I pulled up my app and I’m like looking at it. And then just to throw him off, I’m like, “Hey, honey, this is your Home Depot receipt, and it says this and this and this. Why don’t you take care of it?” Just small things.
Brian:
I can relate to that. I live alone, and I’m in my forties, and I was talking to customer service for some company and told them I was blind. I’m just like you, very independent, can’t stand whenever I have to phone a friend to rely on anything sighted. I actually had a customer service rep say, “Oh, is your mommy at home? Can they help you with that?” I said, “I’m a 40 year old man. I’ve lived alone for the last 20 years.”
Serina:
I’m especially excited about the product identification piece of it because we do have some apps that do that, but they require you to find the dang barcode and that’s a chore in itself. With this, it sounds like if it’s just… And I’m guessing the database is vast because, well, you’re Google, so you have access to tons and tons of images.
Jeff:
At last year’s convention, I went to the Google booth and took the camera and turned it and they had a display of some fruits and vegetables and it named them. I mean, it didn’t like make me put one at a time here. It was just a small area, probably two foot by two foot, and I just brought the camera in that zone and it just named them. That was pretty cool.
Jyotsna:
Yeah. I mean, it also has that explore mode. The explore mode is where you can just hold it, and then as you’re moving the camera around, it will identify that. It will identify items such as it will say glass, chair, table, person, things like that. It will read off. So that’s one mode. And actually, Serina, you can download it from the Play Store. Just search for Lookout and you can download it. It is available.
Serina:
I love apps like that, anything to make my life easier, and that significantly increases our level of independence. In the past, I used to have to pay a reader to come in and read a lot of things for me because I’m a vocational rehabilitation counselor, and I need a lot of medical records. And now with apps like that, I can just figure out what it is myself. I love that.
Jyotsna:
Actually one more mode and this one, which I love so much, is currency recognizer. It recognizes the bills and I love it. I’ve always ended up folding my bills and putting them in different pockets and stuff. And when somebody hands me a bell or something, then I have to ask them or ask somebody else what that bill is. But the currency recognizing mode is also really great. It will tell you the denomination once you hold it up against the camera.
Jeff:
Jyotsna, we’re going to do a two part here, but you kind of went into your family cleaning the garage, that’s pretty cool. You lost sight. You were graduating.
Jyotsna:
Yes.
Jeff:
About to graduate. I think it was 2004?
Jyotsna:
2004.
Jeff:
Yeah, and something came up. That’s when you lost your eyesight and you took it upon yourself, within a year, you did graduate with pretty good honors.
Jyotsna:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff:
That’s determination right there.
Jyotsna:
Thank you.
Jeff:
A lot of people lose eyesight and it takes them a while before they get the ball rolling again and get motivated, but you were determined to finish this and you even… I read that article from CNN that you even were testing accessibility at your college resource center.
Jyotsna:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff:
I mean, you didn’t skip a beat.
Jyotsna:
There were a couple of things, I would say, which played into this. Going back to when I was in high school and I was applying to colleges and everything, so as many Indian families happen, like many Indians, they brag about their kids going to top-notch colleges and everything. And I wanted to give that opportunity to my parents, but I didn’t end up being able to get into any of the top-notch university. So I was pretty sad about that. But when I started college, I said, okay, that’s fine. I can’t go to top-notch college. Fine. The next best thing I can do is to graduate in no more than four years and that too with a good GPA. That’s a minimal I can do. From day one, I was focused on achieving that goal.
Jyotsna:
And just about a month or so before losing my vision, I was approved to graduate actually in 2005 May. But just about a month later, I lost my vision. It was due to a surgery. When I woke up from the surgery, my first thought was, what does this mean for college? Does this mean I cannot graduate in four years? Does this mean I cannot graduate? What does this mean? My focus was okay, fine, I can graduate in four years, but what’s the next best I can do? From day one, my focus was to accomplish that goal. I went back to college about a month after I lost my vision, and I started taking some additional classes like for braille, mobility training, how to use JAWS, all of that in the first semester. While I was completing the courses, I took a withdrawal.
Jyotsna:
And from there, I continued finishing the rest of the courses, and I graduated exactly one year from the date I was originally supposed to graduate on. And kind of in my final semester for one of the class projects, I was working for the disability resource center on campus, and one of the projects they had me do was to test out some software to see if it was accessible for people using screen reader. And that’s when I came up with the idea, this would be wonderful if I could actually do a job as doing accessibility testing to help make inaccessible websites accessible.
Jeff:
And that’s what you wanted to do was help others gain the access that you just recently gained at that point, which led you to Google.
Jyotsna:
Definitely. Yes.
Jeff:
Now, what was interesting, Google actually wasn’t looking for someone of that job position that you wrote up. You were encouraged to create the job you wanted I think from your father, and you just got hired.
Jyotsna:
Yeah. So actually what had happened was when I was about to graduate… So this was my dilemma is I had an undergrad in management information systems under business. And technically, I would become a business analyst, but I figured that wasn’t a viable solution for me. So then when I also got interested in doing accessibility testing, when they started looking for positions out there, most of the private companies didn’t have such a role. Some government-based companies had it. And when I was talking to my dad, he’s like, “Okay, look, why don’t you make up a title? Build your resume and start applying. Fine. You get a job. You get a job. You don’t get a job. Fine. You’re not in any worse of a situation.”
Jyotsna:
And the funny thing was a couple of my professors, they recommended me applying to Google, and I refused to do so. I’m like, look, I’m not going to get in. I’m not going to apply. That’s it. And my brother, he had a friend at Google. And without my knowledge, he gave my resume to him and said, “Look, she’s looking for this role. If you can find somebody appropriate, please refer her. If nothing happens, fine. She doesn’t know I’m giving her resume.” And it just happened so that his friend knew someone and my resume got handed off. They did the interview, and they’re like, “Hmm, this sounds interesting. We don’t have this role, but you know what? Whatever you said sounds interesting. We’ll go ahead and create the role. We’ll hire you, and then let’s take it from there.”
Jyotsna:
They created the exact role, the title I had created on my resume, and they hired me into that role.
Jeff:
And now you’re leading the accessibility testing team.
Jyotsna:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brian:
Jyotsna, what was that feeling like the day you found out that Google had hired you for the role that you had created?
Jyotsna:
I can still remember the day. I can remember it as if I can see it in front of my eyes. I was cooking with my mom in the kitchen, and my parents’ landline went off where it read the caller ID and it said Google, and I froze in place. My mom’s like, “Go pick it up.” And I picked up the phone and the recruiter was also trying to pull a fast one on me. And he said in a very serious tone, he’s like, “I have some news for you.” I’m like, “Oh God,” and I was shaking my head to my mom like, no, I didn’t get it. I didn’t get it. I didn’t get it. And he’s like, “Are you home alone?” I’m like, “No.” He’s like, “Well, I recommend before you hear this news have them soothe you. Give you their shoulder.” And I sat down with my mom on the sofa and I’m like, “Yeah, mom, I didn’t get it. I’m a failure. I’m not getting it.”
Jyotsna:
And he’s like, “Well, congratulations, you got the job.” I’m like, “Mom, I didn’t get it. Mom, I didn’t get it. Whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you say I got the job?” He’s like, “Yup, you got a job.” And from that point, any other details he gave me, nothing got processed. The moment I hung up the phone, my mom and I held onto each other and we were jumping around the whole house bonkers. So yeah, I can still remember that day.
Brian:
That’s a great story.
Jeff:
Yeah, it is. Serina?
Serina:
I’m just sitting here smiling. That is the coolest story and you’re such a good storyteller. I had it completely envisioned in my mind, like the whole story from start to finish. That’s the coolest thing ever. If I had to do over again, I would have gone the tech route. I’m not kidding. It’s maybe too late for me now, but I’ve always thought it’d be super… Maybe it’s because of the movie The Internship, how cool it looks to work at Google, but I’m sure it actually is that cool.
Jyotsna:
It is. I mean, what I really love is I truly feel like Google is an equal opportunity employer. Initially, when I started at Google, I was very hesitant because this was my first corporate company I joined after graduating. I was very hesitant. My first doubt was I somehow slipped through the cracks. Maybe if people notice me, they’ll be like, “What the heck are you doing here? You’re fired,” kind of thing. I was very, very reserved. I use to hide behind everything, and I’m like, okay, I’ll do whatever they tell me to do. I’m not going to ask for any accommodations. I’m not going to ask for anything. I’ll just do the work. But maybe a year or two years later, I found out, look, that’s not how it works, not at least at Google.
Jyotsna:
I can ask for whatever accommodations I need and they will provide it. And you know what? I did not slip through the cracks. I am important. People actually value me. They do really believe that I do have the knowledge and that everybody else can learn from me, and that’s when I started becoming a bit more outspoken. And I would say I have grown quite a bit to trying to even help other new joinees at Google. Especially people with visual impairment when they join Google, I try to help them out so that they don’t feel that same doubt and feel uncomfortable like I did.
Brian:
Jyotsna, I know here in New York City, Google is notorious for having a giant food and snack bar. I assume that’s the same at all locations. What’s it like working from home now without that snack bar?
Jyotsna:
The funny thing is I’m probably one of those weird Googlers-
Brian:
Googlers.
Jyotsna:
…where at my desk you’ll find snacks that I took from home. People oftentimes they come to me, they’re like, “Honey, if you don’t realize, we have free snacks here,” and I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know we have free snacks. I just try to stay away from the snack rack. I just want to bring healthy snack.” We do have healthy snacks and options like that, but I try to stay away from the snack rack. I try to stay away from the beverage coolers. I just try to stay very focused on eating healthy because I don’t want to gain the weight.
Brian:
Smart advice.
Jyotsna:
Though we have gyms where we can go and lose the weight, I think it’s better not to gain the weight in the first place.
Brian:
There you go. What advice do you have for someone either transition age student or anybody who is going through vision loss? What advice would you have for them?
Jyotsna:
Though it might be hard to believe in what I’m saying, I would say one thing that is going to be very important for everybody is to believe in yourself. If you don’t believe in yourself, trust me, no one is going to believe in you. It is important that you believe you can accomplish anything you want to. Second, oftentimes when other individuals who are facing this problem, they approach me, they say, “Which career should we go into given our disability?” No, that is a wrong question to ask. Any profession that you are interested in, you should pursue that. Anything and everything is possible. You just need to find a different way of achieving that goal, but you should not change your goal. That is what is going to be important.
Jyotsna:
You focus on your goal and it will be accomplished. It may take longer, but you will be able to accomplish it. Stay focused. You fail once, try a second time. Fail twice, try again. Keep on trying until you are successful. It is important not only for individuals with disabilities, but even individuals without disabilities that you love your profession. Because for most of your waking hours, you’re working. And if you don’t love your job, you’re going to hate yourself. It is important that you pick a career that you enjoy. Don’t change your career because you believe that you will not be able to do it because of your disability. No. Anything and everything is definitely possible. Just work hard at it. Just find the ways of doing it.
Jyotsna:
Once you start believing in yourself, trust me, other people will see it in you and they will give you the chance. But if you hesitate about yourself, you’ll never be able to build confidence about you and others.
Brian:
That’s a very sage advice. Also, to our listeners, we’re living in a time now in history where a lot of companies are very forward-thinking. I was asked to go to, it was at One World Trade, as a new age forward-thinking company in the tech world. They just hired an intern, and they wanted somebody who was blind to come into that office building and see if there was anything that was going to hinder her performance and everything. And they were doing this for an intern. Don’t think that companies aren’t out there looking for people with disabilities. I mean, there are a lot of opportunities for people out there.
Jyotsna:
Definitely. I mean, I personally have seen just the simple fact. When I was looking for a career, when I searched for accessibility testing position, I could not get any results. Now, day in, day out, I’m being approached by recruiters through my LinkedIn profile asking me to join their company for an accessibility tester role or accessibility testing manager role. I know for a fact that more and more companies are looking into accessibility and who else other than the individuals facing the disability be able to provide that assistance? And after all, products which are accessible are much more user friendly for anybody even without disabilities. And it is time that we all come together and unite.
Jeff:
Well said. I remember when the first curb cuts happen, they were meant for wheelchairs, and everybody uses them. And it just kept growing from there. And here we are today and you’re living proof of determination that you met that challenge, that obstacle, and you just were determined to do what you wanted to do, the career you wanted. Good for you. That’s a great story, and I’m sure the listeners are going to enjoy that.
Jyotsna:
Thank you.
Jeff:
Well, Jyotsna, thank you so much, and thank Google so much for building in the accessibility and the products and all the apps that are available to them on all the platforms. Thanks for taking the time and coming on to That Blind Tech Show and Blind Abilities. And yeah, just thank you.
Jyotsna:
My pleasure.
Jeff:
Brian, any last words?
Brian:
Yeah. Thanks so much for creating the job that you created because it helps myself, everyone on this podcast, and all of our listeners. Keep up doing what you’re doing, and it was great to meet you over here on this podcast.
Jyotsna:
Thank you very much.
Brian:
You’re welcome.
Jeff:
Serina?
Serina:
I just have to say, I super appreciate even hearing your story about how you created that position because I am convinced that had you not created that position, G Suite would not be as accessible as it is today. And I exclusively use all G Suite products for my work. I used to have everything go through Outlook and it just kept frustrating me. And now I don’t even touch Outlook everything I do. Everyone gets so annoyed with me because I’m like, “Let’s do a Google Form for it, or let’s use Google Sheets,” because it’s just so collaborative. I really, really appreciate that accessibility that’s built right in now.
Jyotsna:
Same here. Thank you very much. It was great chatting with all of you.
Jeff:
Such a great time talking to Jyotsna and learning about her story and what she does for Google and accessibility. Thank you, Google. Thank you, Jyotsna. And thank you Chee Chau for your beautiful music. Always carrying a great tune. You can find Chee Chau on Twitter @LCheeChau, Chee Chau, Chee Chau. Be sure to contact your state services for the blind, your voc rehab, and find out what they can do for you. Live, work, read, succeed. And most importantly, I want to thank you the listener. Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed. And until next time, bye, bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff:
For more podcasts with the blindness perspective:
Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com On Twitter @BlindAbilities
Download our app from the App store:
‘Blind Abilities’; that’s two words.
Or send us an e-mail at:
info@blindabilities.com Thanks for listening.
send us an email at info@blindabilities.com.
Thanks for listening.
Contact Your State Services
If you reside in Minnesota, and you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361.
To find your State Services in your State you can go to www.AFB.org and search the directory for your agency.
Contact:
Thank you for listening!
You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities
On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com
Send us an email
Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Storeand Google Play Store.
Check out the Blind Abilities Communityon Facebook, the Blind Abilities Page, the Career Resources for the Blind and Visually Impaired, the Assistive Technology Community for the Blind and Visually Impaired. and the Facebook group That Blind Tech Show.