Full Transcript
Arielle:
And that’s really a motif throughout the entire book is what is it that I want people who come after me to know that I didn’t know or that I didn’t get growing up?
Jeff:
Please welcome Dr. Arielle Silverman, author, blogger, and research specialist at American Foundation for the Blind.
Arielle:
Networking is just so important. Don’t pass up an opportunity. Even though it seems like, boring, to go to a job fair, do informational interviews, like you never know where it’s going to take you. And even unpaid internships and volunteering can really help build your network.
Jeff:
Introduces her new book, talks about research and advice for transition age students.
Arielle:
Students who are really good doing things on their iPhones, and maybe they also use a Braille display, and that’s great, but they don’t know how to use JAWS on a computer. And many workplaces, and I don’t know, maybe this will change, maybe not. But currently, most workplaces use PC and they expect people to be able to know at least the basics of how to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, so it’s really important to get those skills.
Jeff:
And without further ado, here’s Dr. Arielle Silverman. We hope you enjoy.
Arielle:
If you want to join my Facebook group, it’s facebook.com/groups/justhumanquest.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today in the studio, we have Dr. Arielle Silverman, and she is about to release a new book called Just Human: The Quest for Disability Wisdom, Respect, and Inclusion. Arielle, welcome to the show.
Arielle:
Thank you very much, Jeff.
Jeff:
This new book, I’m excited, what, November 15th, it drops?
Arielle:
Yes, it’ll drop on Amazon on November 15th. And it’ll also be available in an accessible PDF version.
Jeff:
Oh, cool. Well, let’s dig right into your new book, Just Human: The Quest for Disability Wisdom, Respect, and Inclusion. Arielle, can you explain what the book is about? And why did you decide to write the book?
Arielle:
Great question. So I started vlogging about four years ago, and I started sharing stories that I remembered from my childhood. And it’s interesting to think about memory, because the first couple years of our lives, nobody can remember, and what we know of the beginning of our lives, we only know through the lens of other people, but then, you know, around a certain age, we all start to develop some memories, long-term memories at first that are scattered and are just kind of brief clips of what we recall. And then as we get older, the memories become a little more sophisticated. And we start remembering whole incidents. And then finally, we get to a point where memory is a continuous thing where we remember the continuity of time. And I realized that some of those clips, or some of those moments from childhood, actually were very profound, and had a lot of lessons that other people could take away from them. So I started writing these brief essays, and each essay was centered around a particular event or a particular period in my life. It also would tie in some reference to academic research, or history, or scholarship to kind of explain what that event was, and to explain what the lessons are that we can learn from it. And so each essay then became a chapter of this book, and I put them in roughly chronological order. And the essays together tell a story about growing up as a blind person in a sighted world. And going through these different stages, starting from kind of naive, I guess, naivety about what other people who can see experience and kind of the self-centered view of being a blind person and feeling content and whole as a blind person, and not yet knowing that other people saw me very differently. And as I progressed through childhood and adolescence, I went through these different stages of recognizing that other people thought that my life was defective, because I couldn’t see, or they saw me as not a full member of the community, so going through those stages of recognizing and figuring out what to do with those attitudes that other people held about me. And then finally getting to a place of self-acceptance, as well as being accepted and being included. And so the first half of the book takes these different stories from different phases of childhood and adolescence. And then the second half of the book is narrated, through my perspective as an adult, and I’m still telling some stories about being a young adult, going to the Louisiana Center for the Blind, falling in love, meeting my husband, and starting my career. But I’m also conveying these lessons that I think are just so important for everyone to understand about disability, about inclusion, about how to help everyone reach their potential. And the final part of the book, it becomes a little bit less of a memoir, a little bit more of an instruction manual. They lay out some of my ideals for how the world maybe should be, and I talk about what messages I want to pass on to the younger generations. And that’s really a motif throughout the entire book, is what is it that I want people who come after me to know that I didn’t know or that I didn’t get growing up?
Jeff:
Like licking a dog’s face.
Arielle:
Yeah, so one of the stories is when I was seven years old, and I got in an argument with my grandpa about whether people can lick dogs, and my grandpa and I would go back and forth, and we would argue, and you know, he was way older than me, way smarter than me, so he would always win these debates. But there was one time when I said, you know what, I’m going to show you that I’m right. And I went, and I licked the dog’s face, or I- you know, it says face, and maybe it was his side, and it shut my grandpa up completely. He didn’t respond. That was the end of discussion. And I, you know, won that one debate. But it also demonstrates a whole lesson about what I call the fallibility of can’t, because grandpa was saying, people can’t lick dogs, that’s silly, people just can’t do that. And, you know, I went and did it anyway. And it shut him up. And obviously, there’s a lot of metaphor too. In the world, people are often telling us that we can’t do things. And sometimes it’s true, or it’s partly true, but a lot of times it’s false, and it’s just based on outdated notions of what people can do or what people should do. And it’s up to us to have the courage to stand up and say, you know what, I can do that. And I just did.
Jeff:
Sometimes when someone does do that, outside the box that people seem to put us in, they always attach like, it’s amazing, which perhaps stems from their perspective that’s been developed from little to no knowledge of the abilities and the limited expectations that they may have of someone who’s blind or visually impaired.
Arielle:
Yeah.
Jeff:
In the title of your book, you have “disability wisdom,” I caught that right away. Because I’ve been receiving your blog for three, four years. I said, ah, that ties together really well. So I really liked the title, I really liked that. Can you describe to people what is disability wisdom?
Arielle:
So disability wisdom has a dual meaning. And I would say the simple meaning or the direct meaning is the wisdom that we get by actually talking to people with disabilities. There’s a lot of stuff out there, that’s people without disabilities trying to explain or study our experience from the outside. But disability wisdom comes from the inside. And it comes from the knowledge and experience that we have acquired as a collective of people with disabilities. That’s like the simple meaning, but then if you also consider the writings of the sociologist, Erving Goffman, he wrote about what he called the wise, and the wise are people without a stigma who are close to somebody who does have a stigma, so that- in disability world, that would be like people without disabilities, who are our partners, or our family members, or friends, or teachers, ever, like people who get it, people who don’t have our experience, but they’re close enough to listen just enough that they get it, and they’re treated as kind of part of the community by virtue of being wise. And so I think the goal of disability wisdom, when I talk about it in the book, when I talk about it in presentations, is a goal that we all aspire to, is to be among the wise, and even if we ourselves don’t have a particular experience to be open-minded and humble enough to be able to really connect with and really respect people who have that experience.
Jeff:
Oh, that’s great. I like what you said that you talk about some memories, experiences that you had, but you also have the added part of attaching the lesson that you’ve learned there. What lesson did you learn or share with people about you slacking on your algebra test?
Arielle:
Yeah. So, and this goes back to what you were saying about people saying, you’re so amazing, because you do normal things. So when I was 15, I was taking my algebra final. And it was my last final. And I just wanted to be done with school. And I remember I had a pretty high grade in that class, so I was like, oh, you know, it doesn’t really matter. This final doesn’t really count. And there were a couple of questions on the test that were pretty hard, and so I just skipped them and I didn’t answer them. And it turned out that my score on that test was so low that I ended up getting a B in the class instead of an A, that was my first time getting below in A in a class and at the time, I was like, oh my god, like, that was a really stupid thing. I don’t know why I did that. That was really, like, I really wish I hadn’t done that. And I don’t think I’d consciously meant to mess up my grade in that class. But then I realized that my teacher had made a statement to me shortly before I took his final exam, basically saying that he was amazed and inspired that I was doing so well in algebra, and he didn’t understand how I did so well as a blind student, and that he hadn’t expected me to do so well. And I think part of me wanted to maybe show him or show myself perhaps, that the reason that I did well in school is because I tried hard and so if I stopped trying, like if I just started blowing off test questions, I would no longer do well in school. And I think during that whole period of my life, which I talk about in Chapter Eight of the book, I was going through a period when I couldn’t, and I think a lot of disabled blind people can relate to this, like, I didn’t always know if somebody gave me a compliment if it was really deserved, or if they were just seeing me through what we call a shifted standard. And that’s what social psychologists have referred to when talking about stereotypes about certain groups of people, like women are stereotyped as being physically weak. And so if a woman, you know, carries something heavy, it’s like, wow, you did such a great job with that for a woman, and not necessarily objectively doing a great job. So I was struggling with that, trying to understand what I was actually good at, and what people just said I was good at, because they were amazed that I was blind and I was doing things, like doing well in a math class. And I had to work through that, and eventually had to find people to surround myself with, like teachers, for example, who really challenged me and did not have shifted standards.
Jeff:
What is the target audience? I can see this going to students, to teachers, to parents, family members, but what is your target audience for your book.
Arielle:
So I would say all of the above. And when I was growing up, I always enjoyed reading memoirs by other blind people, especially blind from birth individuals that I could relate to. And so I think adolescents and young adults with disabilities, and I try to make the book as cross-disability as possible, it’s not just about blindness, it’s also about other disabilities and other differences that people have. So I think anyone who, especially young people who maybe feel like they’re the only person in their particular situation, or they feel misunderstood by the rest of the world, I would want them to read this book, it’s also meant for parents to understand what it’s like growing up with a disability and to maybe have some hope, if their child is newly diagnosed, that it’s going to be okay, because the book really tries to present a very optimistic view of the opportunities that we can have with disabilities. And then teachers, particularly student teachers, going into fields where they’re going to be working with students with disabilities, I want them to understand some of these identity things that we go through, and also understanding how they can foster inclusion in our classrooms and how they can respect their students.
Jeff:
Wow, this is really great, because I remember, I mean, I think a lot of people will remember when they first became blind, or first realized that there wasn’t much information to read about other people, until you start meeting people actually, physically, whether you go to a camp or whether you go to- then you start relating to other people, but to actually have a memoir with lessons in it is really good. So good job on creating this book.
Arielle:
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Jeff:
Today, you’re a research specialist at AFB and research has been your passion for over the last 10 years. Thanks for putting out that blog, Disability Wisdom, because it was neat to tap into some of these blogs that you put out there. And like we said, you can find this on disabilitywisdom.com. But first question, are you going to keep that website going?
Arielle:
So the website will definitely be active. I don’t know how often I will post blog updates, I think it kind of depends on what happens with the book. The blog will be very much focused on the book for the next few months to try to get the word out about the book and to post these kinds of interviews and things like that. I have also shared content from other bloggers because I don’t want the blog to just be about me, I want it to be about people with all different types of disability experiences. So I would say if you want to write a blog post and I do pay an honorarium for contributors who get published on the blog, you can send me an email, it’s a-r-i-e-l-l-e@disabilitywisdom.com. I have limited time, now that I have this full-time position, so that’s why I haven’t been generating a lot of new content for the blog. And honestly, a lot of my creative juices have been flowing into the book as of late. I guess the short answer is I don’t know. But there will be some ongoing communication through the blog. I just don’t know what form it will take, at this point,
Jeff:
Your passion for data and research, I mean, some people steer away from those numbers and all that. But what has kept that passion going?
Arielle:
Well, I think research is just a systematic, objective way to find out the collective experience of a large group of people. And when policy is based on research, it tends to be a more effective means of making change. So I got really interested in research, I think, actually close to 20 years ago now, when I started at Arizona State University and I started taking psychology courses. I realized that we can understand why people do the things they do. I think I’ve always had a lot of curiosity about why people do things, especially things that don’t make a lot of sense, and research helps us get closer. It doesn’t give us immediate answers, but it definitely helps us get closer and then it helps us figure out what needs to change on the policy side so that people’s needs are being met.
Jeff:
I was just on a podcast with Sarah Caltieri, and we talked about the similarities between the United States and the United Kingdom that people with blind or visually impaired in society kind of have the same experiences. And yes, people travel back and forth a little bit. But it’s, you know, there’s a lot of different social differences between some areas. But it seems like with the blind and visually impaired, there’s a lot of common ground.
Arielle:
Yeah, that’s interesting. I imagine a lot of it is dependent on the larger culture. And because there’s cultural similarities between the United States and the United Kingdom in general, I mean, compared with other parts of the world where blindness is viewed very differently, I would imagine that relatively speaking, US and UK blind populations would experience a lot of similarities. I spent a semester in Australia, it was interesting to look at how blind people were treated in Australia versus here in the United States. And there were a lot of similarities because there are- culturally, there are a lot of similarities. And there were a couple of differences. Like I noticed that, I think in Australia, there’s a lot less like concern about litigiousness. And so there was less like bureaucracy, like if I wanted to do something as a blind person, there was less fear of like, you know, what if something happens, and we get sued, but at the same time, there was also less focus on like civil rights and freedom. And not that, I mean, blind people in Australia did enjoy a lot of rights and privileges compared with blind people in the rest of the world, but maybe like the independence and freedom wasn’t quite as central of a value there. But those were pretty small differences. I think, overall, there were a lot of similarities.
Jeff:
Yeah. It’s nice to find out that information, whether through research or through your own experience. What advice would you have for transition age students today, looking forward to their journey through higher education in the workplace?
Arielle:
So a few things come to mind. The first thing that comes to mind immediately is networking is just so important, and I know people drill that to death, but I think especially when you’re blind, and there’s a lot of ableism in the application process, if you try to go through the front door to get hired somewhere, like half the time the application is online, and it might not be accessible, or they say you need a driver’s license, even though you really don’t to do the job. There’s just so many barriers to getting in, not to say that you can’t get in through the regular channels. But if you, like, get to know people at different employers, it’s so much easier to find a position if people know you and they know what you’re capable of, and they can vouch for you. I guess my job history has been kind of unconventional because I was in school, and then I did a postdoc fellowship. And then after that I was self-employed until I started at AFB. But all the positions that I’ve had have been at least one person that I knew, like facilitated the process of getting hired. And obviously like getting clients as a self-employed consultant, some of my clients were, like, cold calls, but many of them were through referrals from people who knew me. So I would say like, don’t pass up an opportunity, even though it seems, like, boring to go to a job fair, do informational interviews, like you never know where it’s going to take you. And even unpaid internships, and volunteering can really help build your network. The other thing that’s coming out in research I think that’s huge is technology skills are so important, and I work part-time at a transition program. And I’ve definitely worked with students, and I’ve heard stories from parents as well about students who are really good at doing things on their iPhones, and maybe they also use a Braille display, and that’s great, but they don’t know how to use JAWS on a computer. And many workplaces, and I don’t know, maybe this will change, maybe not. But currently, most workplaces use PC, and they expect people to be able to know at least the basics of how to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint. So it’s really important to get those skills either formally through a TVI or by going to a summer program, or informally, just get on the computer and turn on JAWS and start navigating and using the menus and the ribbons and the help, like context sensitive help and that sort of thing to learn how to use those different programs I think is so important.
Jeff:
I’m so glad you said that. I’ve stressed many times that people who want to use their notetakers or their Apple devices and stuff, but when you do look at the workforce out there, a huge majority of it is based on the PC and JAWS. I mean, NVDA is good except for in jobs, in situations, the open source really doesn’t allow for it to be implemented into their systems. So that’s good advice. That’s good advice. At least start learning it whether you go through state services, VR training programs, good advice. Thank you for that. Glad to hear it. And I’m glad your book is out coming up here. So people, go to Amazon, check it out, Just Human: The Quest for Disability Wisdom, Respect, and Inclusion.
Arielle:
And one more thing, I don’t know when this is coming out, but one thing that you can do even before the book comes out is to join my Facebook group, because I am posting exclusive previews from the book, like one chapter every day, until the book comes out. And then after the book comes out, of course, there’ll be updates on how it’s going and if there are new formats, like I’m hoping eventually to have an Audible format and possibly a hardcopy Braille format as well. So if there are new formats or new distributors, all that will be shared, I think in my blog and also in my Facebook group. So if you want to join my Facebook group, it’s facebook.com/groups/justhumanquest. There we go. I’ll put all these links in the show notes. So, Dr. Ariel Silverman, thank you for what you’ve done, what you’re doing, I’m looking forward to the future with you at AFB, all the good stuff that’s coming out of American Foundation for the Blind. So thank you for everything, and thanks for coming on to the show.
Arielle:
Awesome. Thanks so much.
Jeff:
Such a great time talking to Dr. Arielle Silverman. Be sure to check out her new book, Just Human: The Quest for Disability Wisdom, Respect, and Inclusion, available on Amazon starting November 15th. And be sure to check out the show notes and keep up with the latest from Dr. Arielle Silverman. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store. That’s two words, blind abilities. You can check out the show notes, find all our locations on Facebook as well. And if you want to leave us a message, give us some advice or leave a suggestion, give us a call at 612-367-6093. We’d love to hear from you. A big shout out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music, you can follow Chee Chau on Twitter @lcheechau. And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, to you, your family and friends, stay well, stay informed and stay strong. I want to thank you for listening, hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
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