Podcast
Full Transcript
Aaron:
If you get lost in playing a game, suddenly you start paying attention after two hours, and suddenly you’ve learned all the gestures of voiceover on the iPhone.
Jeff:
Please welcome gaming enthusiast and writer, Aaron Spelker.
Aaron:
A game developer of a new game that just came out just a couple weeks ago. It’s called Beyond the Chiron Gate.
Jeff:
Creator of the popular Facebook group, Apple iPhone iOS Voiceover Compatible Games.
Aaron:
And there’s actually some really interesting stuff that’s happening now, you know, with some audio description that is starting to happen in games.
Jeff:
Now please welcome Aaron Spelker. We hope you enjoy.
Aaron:
What games are gonna be coming out in, you know, the next two, three, four years that incorporate some of this accessibility conversation.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today in the studio, we have Aaron Spelker, and he is an enthusiast about mobile accessible games, especially on the iPhone. Aaron, welcome to the show.
Aaron:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Jeff:
Aaron, thanks for reaching out, and I went and searched your- I’ve been stalking you a little bit on social media.
Aaron:
Yep.
Jeff:
What a resource you have for people to go to, especially on your Twitter @amspelker, just go there, people, and you can find all you want. It’s really bustling with activity there.
Aaron:
Yeah, I tried to create the resource that I couldn’t find when I first went blind and was hoping was out there. I’m a lover of games. I wanted to play games. And after losing my sight, I was looking for what can I play? And I just was having a real hard time finding like a list of these are accessible games that you can play. And so I ultimately decided to just go out on my own and start curating that list so that it would be easier for other people’s to find, you know, that are coming behind me.
Jeff:
And you do Aaron Spelker on YouTube as well.
Aaron:
I do. Yeah, you know, that kind of, as it grew, as I kind of, you know, started, reviewing games. So, I have a Facebook group and that Facebook group, I send out weekly reviews of accessible games. So it’s kind of a long form review. It tells you about, you know, what is this game? Is it fun? And then, you know, here’s how accessible it is or isn’t, and it gives it a grade and, you know, a link right to the app store. So people can download it, and in that process, I started getting to know various developers and started to talk to them. And I decided, well, you know, as opposed to having these conversations where I’m learning all this great stuff and having this wonderful experience, why don’t I record this and then be able to share it with the community so that they can get a more direct connection to the developers as they’re trying to create accessible games?
Jeff:
Well, even on Facebook, you’ve got a group there, Apple iPhone iOS Voiceover Compatible Games. That’s a mouthful.
Aaron:
Yeah, well, again, I don’t know anything about creating Facebook groups and well, I’ll just put in all the keywords. This way if you’re looking for voiceover, you’ll find me. If you search Apple, you find me. If you’re looking for iPhone, you find me. Hello and welcome to the Apple iPhone iOS Voiceover Compatible Games. I was trying to just give people lots of ways, but it is a mouthful. I probably should have thought that through a little bit better.
Jeff:
On your YouTube channel. I know another one just dropped today, but Jesse Anderson, he’s a local here. He’s been on the show. He’s big into gaming, Illegally Sighted is his site.
Aaron:
Yeah. Working on accessible gaming, we have Jesse Anderson from Illegally Sighted. Jesse, welcome.
Jesse:
Thank you for having me, good to be here.
Aaron:
Yeah. I’ve been branching out to do, you know, kind of influencers as well to kind of, you know, people who are in this field, looking at games, people like Jesse, who are reviewing the game or doing walkthroughs and playthroughs and, you know, explaining how to navigate the accessibility of things. They’ve been really wonderful conversations. Those are some of my favorites, because they’re kind of plugged into all- everything. You know what I mean?
Jeff:
And on Sundays, you do a long form version.
Aaron:
Yeah. On Sundays, every Sunday on the Facebook group and on Twitter, I post a link to a long form review of whatever game I’ve covered that week. So we now have over 90 games that have been reviewed across a wide variety of genres, which again was very important to me as I was creating the group. I was like, I love RPGs, but if I did a group that did nothing but RPGs, there’d be a lot of people who there wouldn’t be a game for them. So we’ve covered dozens of different genres of games to just make sure that, you know, whoever goes to our Facebook group, they will find something that they enjoy, whether that’s RPG or letter games or Sudoku, or, you know, whatever the case may be. I wanna make sure that there’s something for everybody on that Facebook group.
Jeff:
If someone was interested in, you know, say they haven’t thought that they would be able to play a game because of the accessibility. What game would you suggest to a newly blind or someone that’s just coming into a vision loss?
Aaron:
Oh, newly blind. I would say start simple. Just, I mean, until you master the, you know, the gestures of voiceover on the iPhone. You know, I think gaming is a great way to really hone those skills because you get immersed in the game, so you quickly learn what gestures you have to do. Start simple with a letter game, a word game, a crossword game, you know, even something as simple as, you know, hangman or something, just to get the gestures down. Once you get the gestures down and you kind of understand that, I mean, really kind of everything is open to you. I mean, there’s 2D adventure games, if you really get advanced in your skill set, there’s 3D adventure games. One game, if you like RPGs and you want something with a lot of depth, there’s a game called Swordy Quest, which is an RPG, you know, you fight dragons and monsters and go collect loot and collect resources and manage all that. You know, that’s probably a little bit more on the advanced side, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily start with that if you’re newly blind and newly figuring out the voiceover, but you know, again, a great game once you have that skill set, really kind of immerses you in that world. And it’s an experience, you know, a good game with good accessibility, you can have the same experience as a sighted person who’s playing that game. And I think that’s really what really excites me when I think about accessibility is the games that do it well, I’m having an experience just like anybody else who’s playing this game, whether they have sight or not have sight. And that to me is, you know, the greatness about the developers have been putting forth accessibility and making their games accessible.
Jeff:
As you stated in one of your writings, you said it takes away the thought of being disabled.
Aaron:
I do articles. I write for pocketgamer.com around accessibility and yeah, that was one of my first articles for them. The one that you just referenced there was talking about gaming and how gaming can be kind of a solution or help combat some of the anxiety and depression and lack of socialization that kind of is much higher in the blind and visually impaired community, and through gaming there’s a lot of things that allow us to combat those things, that allow us to connect to other people, that allows us to feel accomplishment in achieving a goal, you know, by reaching the end of a game or gathering the achievements that are in the game, it gives you a sense of purpose. So a good game that is designed with good accessibility can allow a blind person to get engrossed in that game and kind of forget about the struggles of the day, the struggles of being visually impaired or disabled and get immersed in a game and help them combat, you know, a lot of the anxiety and lack of social connection. You know, games can really help them deal with some of those mental challenges that we have through gaming.
Jeff:
Yeah. I know some gamers and they’re sighted and they didn’t even know there’s a pandemic that happened hardly.
Aaron:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff:
What was the first game that got your interest? I mean, you probably started out playing Atari when you were sighted. What led you to the phone?
Aaron:
Going back to my early days as a child, yeah, I was an Atari 2600 type of person. And you know, I had all the consoles, you know, through the PlayStation 4, and lover of big open world games, you know, Fallout and Skyrim and The Witcher, those were all games that really took up the majority of my time. The Last of Us, another one. And I went blind. I had an accident three years ago where I went from fully sighted to blind virtually overnight. And after a few months when I kind of started getting my feet underneath me, I said, well, you know, I just, I love games. I really enjoy them, but what game can I play? I started by going to what I knew. So I went to- The Last of Us Part II had just come out. I said, oh, okay, yeah, I’m hearing there’s all this accessibility. I’m gonna play The Last of Us Part II. And it’ll be just as great as playing The Last of Us when I was a sighted person. And again, I give Naughty Dog all the credit in the world. I mean, they did something amazing with all the accessibility efforts that they put forth there. But for me, it was a very different experience. It was, you know, playing The Last of Us Part II as a blind person and playing The Last of Us as a sighted person were virtually two completely different experiences.
Jeff:
You know, my son had the game and I said, let’s check out the accessibility. Two hours later we’re still going through the prompts just to make sure we’re getting the best that we can. And I was playing and he says, um, he’s pointing a gun at you. And I said, who? And all of a sudden, oh, you’re dead. I was like, well, I can’t see that, you know, I can’t see something. It was really interesting crawling under buildings, automatic jumping and lunging and stuff. Yeah, it was cool.
Aaron:
Yeah. And for me it was, I think there was a lack of connection and there’s actually some really interesting stuff that’s happening now, you know, with some audio description that is starting to happen in games. We have Reese Lloyd-
Reese:
Cool. My name’s Reese Lloyd, I’m the studio head for Descriptive Video Works. The company is solely focused on audio description or what we in Canada called described video.
Aaron:
And I think that’s what I was missing. I was like, okay, like I’m jumping over something, but I have no idea really what that is or what that is in context. Like, I need someone to describe to me, like, what is this set piece that I’m traversing and that’s, I think the part that was missing for me for The Last of Us Part II was I don’t feel connected to this experience. So I put down the console controller and I said, well, where are there games to play? And, you know, did some internet searching and, you know, mobile games kept coming up. And particularly a game called A Dark Room. And that is the first accessible game that I played as a blind person. I sat down and tried playing A Dark Room and it’s kind of part resource manager, and then part kind of moves to- kind has a little twist in the game and then moves into kind of an RPG type of experience. And it really kind of hit with me like, okay, yes, I can have a fun experience. That this is fun, I’m enjoying this. I don’t feel dissatisfied. Like I kind of had that feeling with The Last of Us Part II, this is a gaming experience I can have and I can enjoy, and what else is out there? And when I went out and started looking like, okay, where’s the big list of all the accessible games, that’s where I was not finding a big list. And I was like, how can there not be a list? And after complaining for about a week, I said, well, maybe I should start the list. And you know, off I went. A Dark Room was the first game I reviewed on the site, and haven’t stopped for the last 18 months.
Jeff:
There you go. So you lost your eyesight three years ago. What was the first step in gaining access to your computer again?
Aaron:
I live in Massachusetts, so I engaged the disability commission for the state and they sent over a person to load JAWS onto my computer and, you know, gave me a kind of a crash course in JAWS and to try to learn how to navigate my computer, ‘cause I learn by doing. I kind of picked up a book idea that I had kind of- thinking about writing a book for five years and I had done all this research and I said, all right, well, I have a lot of free time on my hand ‘cause I’m blind and I’m not working. Maybe I’ll sit down and write this book. And so that’s kind of, I took the little crash course that gave you in JAWS and started writing in Word and that’s pretty much how I learned, you know, for the most part on my own for about a year, you know, how to navigate the computer. And then about a year after I was blind, I took a little two-week crash course at this place called the Carol Center for the Blind in Massachusetts. And that gave me kind of some more advanced skills, so I can actually like run Facebook pages and Twitter accounts and stuff that I do now.
Jeff:
And you published your book?
Aaron:
I did. Yeah. It’s an interesting book. So I wrote it in 2019 and finished it in 2019. And it is about a global SARS pandemic that ravages the world in a matter of months. I finished writing it about three months before COVID-19 happened and then COVID-19 happened. So it’s, you know, kind of funny, very many similarities in my book to what actually ended up happening in the real world.
Jeff:
The Bubonic Reorder. I like that name.
Aaron:
It kinda is told in two parts. So the first part is about a family who is living in 1347 at the outbreak of the bubonic plague, and it’s them trying to outpace, you know, and get away while everyone’s dying around them. And then the second part of the book is modern times. It actually takes place in the year 2020, if you could believe that. And it’s about a global SARS epidemic that is spreading around the world and it’s about a couple different groups of people around the United States who are kind of dealing with that global outbreak. And one group is trying to find a cure and another group is trying to stay healthy, basically.
Jeff:
And that’s how it is today, almost, just the same thing. You started something there, you started something. Actually the bubonic plague, that really got my attention there, especially how you described a ghost ship, a ship, everyone was dead, just kind of sailed on in and people investigated, but they all died of the bubonic plague, and that’s how it started spreading. Big spreader right there. Yeah. It sounded interesting.
Aaron:
Yeah. That ship at the very beginning of the book is coming from a port city called Kaffa, which is the thought of where the bubonic plague really started. The Tatar army had kind of surrounded the port and had used biological warfare, actually, again, one of the first places of thought of biological warfare, they had basically catapulted their dead soldiers who were suffering from the plague. You know, they didn’t know what they were suffering from, but they died and they launched them in catapults into the city and basically infected the whole city. And, you know, in fear, people jumped on ships and, you know, sailed away, but they were already infected. And that’s how it started spreading all through Europe.
Jeff:
Now tell me about this. Over the last three years, the iPhone has come out with newer models and stuff. Have you seen an improvement in the gaming ability for developers to utilize the tools that are built into the iPhone?
Aaron:
So, you know, as I talk to a lot of developers and some other accessibility influencers, it really depends on the basic tool that you’ve used to create the game. So there’s some- particularly some of the Apple software to create a game where there’s already some built-in accessibility, those are a little bit easier to add in accessibility, harder in some other ways to develop a game, but from an accessibility standpoint, a little bit easier. There’s other tool sets like Unity, where the accessibility tool set is not great on that. And it’s much harder, if not, depending on how you construct your game, impossible to add the accessibility in. And so it kind of gets not away from the model of phone per se, but you know, those underlying tool sets to create the game. And, you know, we’re seeing some advancements and some more focus on the accessibility. I mean, again, The Last of Us Part II really brought to the attention, accessibility. You know, we got a lot of news and press and I think has a lot of other developers thinking about it, and other maybe game design tool sets like Unity thinking about how, well, how can we support this now that it’s, you know, everyone’s talking about it. So I’m really more hopeful for where will we be five years from now. Because I think the conversation has made it to the forefront and now people are actually focused on it. And, you know, again, it takes a while to create a game. So it’s, you know, what games are gonna be coming out in, you know, the next two, three, four years that incorporate some of this accessibility conversation.
Jeff:
I really like how you’re bridging that gap and making it so people understand that, as you told me beforehand, that there’s actually a person behind developing this accessibility, building it in, creating it, and probably wants feedback. You know, like Charlie from Swordy Quest, he came on here, and you’ve talked to him on your platform as well. He really took a liking to it. He was telling us about Swift, how you can just turn on these accessible things, and he was looking for it. He wanted it to be that way. So he did that from the get-go, and he really built a really good game for the visually impaired, and just that connection that you’re having with the influencers and the developers and people who can make a difference in accessibility in gaming, you’re doing a great job.
Aaron:
Well, thank you. I started by reviewing games and I’d reach out to the developer and ask a question, you know, before I’d put out the review, and I ended up just started having conversations with different developers and they were so interesting and fascinating, and they had such great stories, and I decided to turn that into different forms. Some are written, some are YouTube interviews, but I’ve wanted to share that conversation with the underlying community. And also, again, have them in some way, realize that there is a person behind, you know, this game who is, you know, usually a one or two person shop who’s creating the game. And I want them to realize, you know, they’re working really hard and they’re doing their best and you know, let’s have some sympathy and empathy for them as they work hard to, you know, meet the demands that we’re requesting.
Aaron (Interview):
Today we have one of the gaming accessibility influencers. We have Liam Irving, Liam, welcome to the interview series.
Liam:
Hey, thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Aaron (Interview):
Today, we have one of the best out there. We have Brandon Cole, who is an accessibility influencer. Welcome.
Brandon:
One of the best. Wow. What an introduction.
Aaron (Interview):
A game developer of a new game that just came out just a couple weeks ago. It’s called Beyond the Chiron Gate. The developer’s name is John Ayliff and John, welcome to the interview series.
John:
Hi, thanks for having me.
Aaron (Interview):
A return visitor in Joe Quirk, the developer of Circus Master’s Revenge…A team from Kirikiri Games who is coming out on Sunday with their new game called To the Dragon Cave.
Aaron:
And then just having them better be able to communicate, you know, what the developer is looking for or feedback that they’re looking for so they can effectively communicate with various developers about, you know, what are the things they’re looking for and how that might be achieved?
Jeff:
Yeah. I always treated it like you’re running a beta, these games that are accessible. If you find problems, have a great communication line going. When you do complain about something- not even complain, bring their attention to, I should say. And that relationship that you develop can go both ways and it is gonna help everyone.
Aaron:
Yeah, no, as you said, let’s not complain. Let’s inform. Maybe you don’t realize this button is not labeled, you know, so can you please label that button? And again, we gotta understand, as you said, it’s a beta, it’s a work in progress. You know, it’s not gonna come out flawless and there’s some people in the community who get very upset, like, you know, it’s not perfect and therefore I’m upset, but it’s never going to be perfect, and no game is perfect. You know, even games for sighted people aren’t perfect. Let’s just inform and give them a chance to update or correct, and I think we’re all better for that.
Jeff:
Aaron, where can people get a hold of you?
Aaron:
There’s a couple different places. So as you mentioned, there’s my Facebook group. It’s got a long name. So it’s the Apple iPhone iOS Voiceover Compatible Games Facebook group. You can find me there. There’s about 1500 people in the community. Like we said, there’s game reviews every Sunday. There’s usually interviews every Wednesday that are posted out to that group. I have a Twitter account, as you mentioned, which is basically my name. It’s A for Aaron, M is for my middle name, Michael, and then Spelker, s-p-e-l-k-e-r. I kind of use that for more like news about accessibility. So I’ll retweet other people that I’m following. So I’m following, you know, dozens and dozens of accessibility, people in various games, so I’ll retweet their stuff as well as inform you that the game reviews are out or the interviews are out. I write articles for pocketgamer.com, so if you search my name on pocketgamer.com, you’ll find articles about accessibility out on their website. And then finally I have my YouTube page where all the live interviews, those are conducted on YouTube and you can find me there. It’s just my name, Aaron Spelker, and there’s probably about 20 developer and accessibility influencer interviews that are out on the YouTube site.
Jeff:
What’s your mobile game taking over the most of your time today?
Aaron:
Right now, and it takes up a lot of my time, it’s a game called Lost Vaults. I’m working on reviewing that game, but it’s like this very in-depth RPG, you know, many levels. And usually with a game, I try to finish the game, I don’t think I can finish this game, but I try to get very deep into a game before I provide any sort of review. So I’ve been working on this one for months now, like two hours a day playing it. And there’s actually some other accessibility influencers, we’re in a tribe together on that group. I’ve interviewed them and now we’re kind of friends and gaming together, which is nice and it’s fun.
Jeff:
All right. Collaborations. I like that. Be sure to check out all his sites and you can stay in tune with all the accessibility coming to gaming, whether it’s on devices, I shouldn’t say devices, everything but a console, right?
Aaron:
Yeah, I do mobile games. So, it- primarily it’s mobile games. I will tweet some news about other things that are about accessibility, you know, beyond mobile gaming, but it’s about accessibility and gaming at large.
Jeff:
Yeah. Right there in your hands. There you go. I like that.
Aaron:
And for those who might be interested in my book, I also donated it to Bookshare. So you can, if you have a Bookshare account, you can download it for free as well.
Jeff:
Yeah, I’m gonna throw all these links in there and I am throwing the links for Amazon and Bookshare as well. But you donated, that’s really good. Good stuff.
Aaron:
Yeah. The blind community has, you know, I’ve gotten a lot of support, particularly through the, you know, the Massachusetts services and just other blind people I met have been very supportive to me. And so with the gaming group, you know, it’s all about kind of giving back, you know, and same with the book. You know, I wrote the book, I’m very proud of the book, but I wanted to share it with the blind community, you know, ‘cause it was really the thing that helped me through a difficult time, was writing that book, and, you know, I just want people to enjoy it and you know, if I can donate it for free to Bookshare, happy to do it.
Jeff:
I really liked how you said, I mean, this was a small part, but I like what you said about you learned by doing it, like that you had a book you wanted to write, so you had to learn JAWS to get to Microsoft Word and start writing.
Aaron:
And searching the internet to research stuff, and yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Aaron:
Yeah. I learned a lot quicker than just someone telling me, and then I don’t use it for, you know, three weeks and then try to do it. This was everyday spending time researching and emailing and writing in Word, and I think it really advanced how fast I was able to, you know, pick up the computer.
Jeff:
The fastest way to muscle memory, right?
Aaron:
Yes. I feel gaming’s the same way. Like if you get lost in playing a game, suddenly you start paying attention after two hours and suddenly you’ve learned all the gestures of voiceover on the iPhone by just playing the game and doing it, and then you can apply that to doing your emails or searching the internet or whatever else you’re doing. It’s just a nice, easy way, a fun way to learn how to navigate your world.
Jeff:
Sounds like an educational component that could be built. There you go. Aaron Spelker, thank you so much for coming onto Blind Abilities.
Aaron:
Oh, my pleasure.
Jeff:
Be sure to check out the links, go follow Aaron on all of his platforms and get gaming.
Aaron:
Thank you.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff:
For more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, download our app from the app store, blind abilities, that’s two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening.
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