See Transcript Below.
Molly Wezel-Peterson shares her journey, her story, her coping while sitting down one on one with Jeff Thompson of Blind Abilities. From her earliest days, through high school and graduating college Molly tells us what it is like accepting Usher Syndrome and staying positive about her future.
I hope you enjoy this look inside of Molly’s life and what she faces every day with Usher Syndrome. I know I did and I learned a lot about DeafBlind from someone who is a true advocate for those facing the challenges which they cannot control but they can rise above the limited expectations.
Molly: You know, knowing I’m going to become blind, I would say at this point in my life, I, I do accept it. Um, it was difficult and it took a long time. Of course, I started out crying and it was very upsetting but I’ve since spent a lot of time learning how to cope as a deaf/blind person, and also educating my family. I do need to, to, to prepare. I do need to get ready, I mean I can still see but I want to be completely prepared when I do lose my sight, when I do become legally blind. I am taking advantage of the sight that I have now to be able to learn how to live as a person that won’t have sight potentially in the future. SSB is fantastic as a support for deaf/blind and there is other organizations outside of Minnesota that are very supportive. Deaf, blind, hearing, whatever your disability is, you can do it. You will be afraid, you will want to isolate yourself, but don’t go that route. Take advantage of all the wonderful opportunities that are out there to help you achieve what you want to achieve.
Jeff Thompson: Welcome to Blind Abilities. I am Jeff Thompson. I would like to introduce you to Molly Wezel-Peterson. She is someone who happens to be deaf/blind, college graduate, hard worker, an advocate, and who wants to share her story about living with Usher Syndrome. From her past to present to her future, Molly shares her thoughts, her emotions, how she copes, and most of all, she is sharing her story with you all. And if you want to find more podcasts with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at blindabilities.com, on Twitter at blindabilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store, that is blind abilities, two words. So without further ado, please welcome Molly Wezel-Peterson.
Molly: Was I born deaf, nobody really knows. I don’t know if I was born hearing or born deaf, it was just never identified but, um, they found out that I was deaf probably when I was around 2, they kinda assumed I was deaf. I was adopted and there was really very, no communication so my parents put me in a special education school, and, I learned sign language with a tutor, and I went to a mainstreamed school so, itís called the Gideon Pond. It was a school for mostly hearing children but as a deaf student, as a deaf person I went there to Gideon Pond and I had a teacher that was there in the Special Ed classroom that taught me and used sign language. And so I learned sign language in school plus my parents learned sign language as well. And really both, my parents have since divorced and they weren’t sure where I should go to school at that point so I, that’s when I ended up going to MSAD in Faribault. I had actually first went to a, first I went to a summer program in Fairbault just to see what I thought of it and I had not yet been identified as having Usher Syndrome so deaf/blind, so just deaf and I really liked the summer school program when I was in Fairbault. It was total immersion environment where everybody was using sign language and so I ended up going to the school and noticing then that little things, like I couldn’t read the black board you know far, and they were starting to notice I was having some vision issues so went to get a check up to the eye doctor and I was labeled as having Usher Syndrome when I was about 10. So we just sort of, I stayed in this regular deaf program despite you know, that, I just ended up graduating from MSAD, well before high school, I had a support group when I was in the, in Gideon Pond, and when I was diagnosed with having Usher’s Syndrome, there was a support group. I also, you know, I played sports and did every, anything that I could do while I still had you know, my vision and didn’t want to be blocked. I had never learned, I mean I never went to a specific blind school, MSAB. I never went there, so MSAD, Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf and then MSAB, Minnesota State Academy for the Blind, are very close to each other but I strictly went to MSAD. I was, my vision was fine at that time. I was just identified, I identified myself as deaf.
Jeff Thompson: You can find out more about the Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf on the web at msad.msa.state.mn.us.
Molly: So things progressed and I had other friends that, I met other friends that had gone to MSAD, and again, my vision hadn’t declined at that point and I met folks at MSAB. But I didn’t learn braille and I didn’t become skilled at what I needed to know as being a blind individual until after high school. I really wanted to be independent before my vision really went don so, I went to a vocational program. Now I didn’t come here to the State Services for the Blind but a different program where I really learned how to be independent and learned skills on how to be a deaf blind individual, I learned braille and just different life skills to prepare me for when my vision did decrease to the point where I would be labeled as deaf/blind and I am very skilled being independent, I really did practice and was very much encouraged to practice the skills that I was learning.
Jeff Thompson: If you are seeking the skills to enhance your opportunities, check out your state services and see what they can do for you.
Molly: And let’s see, so yeah, I’m just trying to think, it was at the time just pretty basic, that I was learning, I mean I wasn’t an expert but I knew enough. And I decided, ok, that is good enough, I am going to go to a different college, I am gonna get my degree, I am going to get a job, those are my goals and plans for the future so that is when I went to the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, NTID and it’s under the Rochester Institute of Technology, RIT. And that is is Rochester, New York, so I entered that program and they have a few deaf programs that’s specific programs there that I was involved in. I was very motivated, I socialized a lot and I was very involved in a deaf/blind support group as well. I experienced living through you know the frustrations of high school, I was now in an environment that was very supportive, I was getting more and more skilled in functioning as a deaf/blind individual and getting to know the deaf/blind community.
Jeff Thompson: Be sure to check your local area for organizations, support groups, communities where you may find support or give support and enhance not only your own opportunities, but may be able to help someone else.
Molly: So I did graduate, got my degree. My technical degree and I came back home, I wasn’t satisfied, I was frustrated, I wasn’t getting full time work and I was kind of not sure where things were going and I wasn’t focusing on the deaf/blind community. What was important to me was finding a job. You know, getting opportunities that I could get at that time of my life, you know where I was, and I decided the job that I had, I was going to quit and I was going to become a full-time student at Metro State University. You know it was a local college and it was relatively inexpensive, and it was going to be an MA in business. Plus, at the same time I was, I was starting to get more and more involved in the deaf/blind community here. So, I was trying to balance those two things with school and deaf/blind community and again, I was slow in learning the skills I needed to learn and developing them to a proficient level since I was so focused on school and my friends and that type of thing and about four years ago I found a job at the U.S. Army Core of Engineer where I’ve been, plus I had graduated in 2014 with my MA degree and the company, you know I did meet my goals. I was, you know got a degree and I got a full-time job and it’s been permanent work, full time and I’ve been very happy there.
Jeff Thompson: You can find out more about Usher Syndrome by searching Google or by going to the American Foundation for the Blind website at www.afb.org and search for Usher Syndrome.
Molly: So my vision then had, you know, it’s not like all of a sudden it just went away, it slowly just started to decline especially starting at night. And during the day it was ok but I started to notice my night vision was really decreasing, I was depending more and more on people to help me get around and, you know friends, and that type of thing. So I tapped into my deaf/blind community again and really started to learn more and more coping skills and definitely improve my own skills on how to be more and more dependent, you know as a deaf/blind individual. That’s kind of everything in a nutshell.
Jeff Thompson: We’re talking to Molly Wezel-Peterson and I want to thank you very much for coming on board and sharing your story with the Blind Abilities listeners.
Molly: It was my pleasure, thank you.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, with some residual sight, what is your preferred method of communications?
Molly: Well, it actually depends on the individual. For myself, Technically, let’s see, legally blind so, on my left, I am not legally blind yet on my right. Now I am deaf plus legally blind on my left both so, but I can still see well enough you know when there is light, when it is bright. Normally preferred is sign language, American sign language to be more specific. Now it’s very important that whomever I am communication with, they were very dark solid as a background to their hands, or if they are a black person they have you know, light solid colors just as there is a contrast for their skin color, then preferred is the American sign language. But that again has to be in an environment where I can see. Now when I become fully blind, it’s going to most likely be tactile sign language, I don’t use that right now just because I don’t need to yet. Although I do use tactile sign language sometimes when it is nighttime, if I’m in a dark environment, if the lights are very low, obviously if it is pretty dark I would need to use tactile sign language just because I can’t see otherwise, but for now American sign language is preferred.
Jeff Thompson: So what kind of social networking platforms do you use?
Molly: I use an IPad, I use Snapchat, I use Glide, Facebook, IMO, I mean I use pretty much everything, what is it, I use Twitter. I do a lot of social networking, social media.
Jeff Thompson: A friend from high school put this question forward. And it’s about her little sister, actually her kid sister, and she writes: My sister does a little signing but not a lot, she does not communicate well because she has been this way since birth. But I always ask myself, what could she be thinking? One of the thoughts is, does she think that she is different than us? Maybe even better because she is not caught up in all of the social values that we are. Less stressed, I guess from this question, she is just wanting answers to know what it’s like to be deaf/blind.
Molly: Well, I would say being deaf and blind, taking two senses away, really there is very limited communication because when you are deaf, you can communicate, you have your hands, you can see other people signing, you can sign. When you know then become blind, that takes away that mode of communication that you have to transition and practice to learn a different mode of communication. Typically tactile sign language. Minnesota is great because it does provide a program where you can learn it. But it is a challenge to communicate with people. I mean, not a lot of people know tactile sign language so you can feel very isolated. It is very important to find a social network that you can tap into so you don’t start felling negative and lonely and alone.
Jeff Thompson: Oh I bet, you know, I have vision loss. But I used to see everything and so like when I hear someone sigh I can imagine them rolling their eyes or actually they are just rolling their eyes but they make a sound and I can put it all together. But you know it’s kind of different from someone from the outside looking in. Kind of like you know, her writing this letter about her sister. Because I know about blindness. I know nothing about being deaf. And actually I don’t even feel half way of understanding it all.
Molly: Just to tag on to what you are saying. In the past, well I just want to say that there is something you call pro tactile. We abbreviate it as PT in deaf/blind community, that’s kind of emerging as a new type of thing in the deaf/blind community and wow. Especially not so much in the blind community, specifically in deaf/blind community, pro tactile. So you know, like you were talking about with expressions, now you’re deaf, you watch expression, facial expressions, that’s even part of American sign language. It’s a grammatical piece, now you become blind on top of it. How do you know emotions/ How do you now if someone’s laughing? How do you know if someone’s upset? You can’t see any of that in the body language. So there’s a type of, I’m going to say code that deaf/blind know that pro tactile interpreters would know. For example let’s say someone’s giving a presentation and there are a bunch of people. And obviously as deaf/blind person I cannot see and I am actually presenting so I’m going about presenting and I don’t know, is the audience falling asleep? Are they engaged? And so I would have a pro tactile interpreter that would be giving me quote unquote codes on my back that we both know that really are attached more to emotions of the audience, of the environment, may be you know, what room, there would be explanation of what a room looks like that type of thing but, another piece of the pro tactile with relations to the emotions, it’s also using it as a type of map perhaps, so let’s say there’s a table in a room and there is a bunch of people sitting around the table, then a pro tactile could, interpreter or person would sort of use my back as a map to show a diagram of where people are sitting and then be able to identify who is feeling what. Oh, you know, over here is feeling, falling asleep or what have you, so that the deaf/blind person is able to quote unquote see the emotions. Because that is taken away when you are deaf/blind, so I just wanted to tag on this pro tactile is kind, is a newer way of interpreting for deaf/blind as opposed to just the tactile interpreting.
Jeff Thompson: You know it’s the things we never think about, that makes perfectly good sense. Such a, it’s common sense.
Jeff Thompson: Another friend of mine, he’s an assistant technology instructor down at MSAB. Ken. He showed me a device. He has three devices. It’s a, they’re cobbled together. A notebook, a refreshable braille, and another interface. And I believe a deaf/blind person could, or does communicate with it. I believe it was a phone. Are you aware of something like this?
Molly: You know that’s actually a really good question. It’s very challenging to make a phone call or to receive a phone call. There are, my understanding is there are two parts, so in the deaf, you know, the deaf world there is technology galore, you have your video phone, if you’re just deaf, you have video phone, you can use that, facetime, all of that, Skype, what have you. Now you add the blindness piece into it, boy that’s tough. Because, I mean for me I can still, I haven’t quite needed to use a phone as a deaf/blind individual, because I can still see well enough. I can say that when I am using my video phone, I can’t necessarily see, if it’s a small screen or if it is dark or I can’t see on the phone I just need to have my friend, a friend of mine, or an interpreter or something help me on the phone. So, if I were using the phone as a deaf/blind individual then you would really rely on someone to use the tactile sign language to interpret the interpreter or whomever is talking to be able to interpret that. Now there is braille, what you’re talking about on mobile devices. You can feel a vibration, you can feel, there are different devices on your IPhone, on you know, different technology, it’s actually just quite amazing how crazy technology has taken off to help put folks with disabilities, it’s so more accessible now, but as a deaf/blind person, or as a deaf person, or as a deaf person, or as just a blind person you definitely need to have that technology, technology in your hands.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, another question came in. You know you kind of answered this but, did you have to go through going deaf and going blind at two different times or all at once?
Molly: Well, just so you know every individual is different and goes through different emotions when they find out they’re going to go blind. Perhaps letís just say it is very emotional, and very difficult, it can be very difficult to go through.so I was first deaf, and what Usher Syndrome means when I was diagnosed at age 10, was that I was eventually going to become blind. Now I’m not, I don’t label myself deaf/blind, I mean I, one of my labels is I have Usher Syndrome. I don’t worry so much going blind at this point but I do identify as a person that has Usher Syndrome. As far as you know, knowing I’m going to become blind, I would say this point in my life, I do accept it. It was difficult and it took a long time, of course I started out crying and it was very upsetting but I have since spent a lot of time learning how to cope as a deaf/blind person and also educating my family on how to support me. You know, you’re going to need to learn braille and you know that type of thing.
Jeff Thompson: You know, I lost my sight later in life and I lost it slowly so I use to be able to use a CC tv quite easily, and so braille, you know I learned it quickly, but I didn’t stick with it because I had so many alternative techniques could use. The CC tv, especially with audio and now with digital and stuff that I kind of adopted to listening. But you know if I would have lost it quickly, I think I would have taken to the braille and dug right in. Some people might call me a lazy blind you know.
Molly: Well, and in my opinion really, I, my, well I should say my perspective from the past compared to now, I get what you are saying, I feel that I do need to prepare, I do need to get ready, I mean I can still see but I want to be completely prepared when I do lose my sight, when I do become legally blind. It’ll be, it’s just easier for me to learn now as opposed to before I don’t, it’s already going to be a struggle, I don’t want to start all over again as a baby to learn all of these skills so my opinion is it is less stressful for me and a lot easier for me to accept if I start preparing myself now you know, my back up plan is I know braille and my friends are understanding what’s happening to me
and Iím teaching them how to support me and if there is an emergency I, people need to know how to support me and I need to know how to support myself and that, so I’m taking advantage of the sight that I have now to be able to learn how to live as a person that won’t have sight potentially in the future.
Jeff Thompson: That’s good. That’s really good. It’s a tough thing to face.
Molly: It is, yes.
Jeff Thompson: Yeah. So in passing time, leisure, what kind of hobbies do you have Molly?
Molly: I love to travel, I love to move about, I love to camp. I like to run. I love to be outdoors, I am an outdoor person. I love to camp, I like to go hiking. I like to socialize with my friends.
Jeff Thompson: Oh I love camping, I love the outdoors. Minnesota you know “The Great Outdoors” you know, way up north, you know.
Jeff Thompson: Minnesota has a lot to offer.
Molly: Right. My first hobby was biking because bicycle because I knew I wasn’t going to be able to drive. Eventually I am becoming legally blind and so I learned how to ride a bike and you know, I am still able to do it during the day, I know, like during the summertime I can do it pretty much all day until, make sure I am home if I am biking by nine. That’s when it starts to get dark and dangerous for me to be biking because I cannot see well enough to keep myself safe. So and I say that maybe it depends on the environment, if it’s flat and safe I could do it when it is a little dark but I do depend on bicycles a lot right now.
Jeff Thompson: I used to love biking. I still do and you know when you mentioned camping. there is an old saying here in Minnesota, you know, some of my friends think that camping is when room service is 10 minutes late.
Molly: (Laughter) Yeah.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, I know you do a lot of advocating. How do you advocate for someone who is in a similar situation?
Molly: Well, networking is very important. it’s very important to have support groups. I wish that I had an advocate when I was growing up. I really didn’t have any, I was labeled Usher Syndrome and it was very difficult to get support. It’s great to have an organization. Minnesota Deaf Blind, what’s it called no no that’s not right. Minnesota Deaf Blind Project, no that’s not right, let me back up. Deaf Blind Minnesota Project, I don’t know the right order of the words, But that has developed and it’s very strong support especially for advocates for children that are deaf blind or have Usher Syndrome. Schools really, some schools do have support for deaf/blind, it’s I think for children especially it’s very important to have a deaf/blind mentor or someone who has Usher Syndrome as a mentor. So the child can look up to that person and say you know, I can do this and I can do that, I can do all of these things. I think that’s key. I didn’t have any of that growing up and I think that’s a very important way to advocate especially for children just to show what you can do. SSB is fantastic as support for deaf/blind and there is other organizations outside of Minnesota that are very supportive.
Jeff Thompson: So, the Minnesota Deaf Blind Project, is that affiliated with the Minnesota Deaf Blind Association?
Molly: No I think it’s separate from that, I think the Minnesota Deaf Blind Project is really focused on a youth program for support, I think up until 18 or maybe up until they end high school. So there is an organization for deaf/blind to help deaf/blind not feel isolated and to make sure, and that’s for adults so it’s a little bit separate. I think Minnesota Deaf Blind Association maybe is for the adults and the project is for the kids. they have workshops and they have fun retreats for you know, like camping, counselors, they have picnics and they just, to keep the kids engaged and active and not isolated is the Minnesota Deaf Blind Project I believe.
Jeff Thompson: Now Molly, you’re no stranger to advocacy because you’ve been recognized by the Tim Mahony award in this area.
Molly: Yes I did win that award yeah and I can explain about that so I, it started really deaf blind adults. I was involved in the deaf/blind community but, well I was actually tapped in to to get involved in deaf/blind community and be a leader in that community for many many years but I never did because I really wanted to focus on school and get all that done so in 2014 when I finished school, I was still getting tapped into to be more of a leader in the deaf/blind community and I felt a little uncomfortable with that just because I didn’t feel like I could, I didn’t know enough, but I started going to different events and learning more and feeling better and, but I noticed that you know it was hard because I would see folks that had Usher Syndrome that were a little bit more advanced than I was and it was hard for me to see that knowing that was going to be me in the future. But I eventually, I got over that and I learned more and more. And I wasn’t, I was basically keeping an open mind, trying to keep a balance with the deaf community and the deaf/blind community. I got so much support from the deaf/blind community and I started to become more active and give more ideas and feedback on things that I thought you know would be helpful ect. And was creative and I was given this award by them. It’s a huge honor.
Jeff Thompson: Well congratulations.
Molly: Thank you.
Jeff Thompson: So what social or entertainment venues do you frequent?
Molly: Oh I love movies, I am a big fan of movies, love movies. There is a movie theater that has, you know movie theaters will have closed captions. It’s technology, I prefer to have it on the screen but they don’t really do that anymore so anyway, I use this type of device and it’s a wireless device that you can read the captions on this device as the movie is going on. I love to go to shows, I love to go to plays, that type of thing, often times they are interpreted and I, as long as I sit in front I can usually see the interpreter. So as a deaf person I am able to do that. I like the arts. A variety of arts I’ll go and enjoy.
Jeff Thompson: Well that’s great. I use a device that actually plays audio into my ear. Now you said that it, actually you can read the text, I was just wondering if somehow they could make that for refreshable braille?
Molly: Good question, I don’t know. I’ve never heard of it, I’ve never, I am not sure what that would even look like, yeah, usually computers do have the news, or information that you can get in a braille type, as a type of technology for the braille but movies, I don’t know. When I become fully blind, If I go to a museum, those kinds of things, like those artsy things as a museum, I mean, I’m not sure if I am going to wanna, I think I still would want to go to that, like maybe the Walker to go see an art exhibit but it would obviously be important to have someone with me to describe every little thing you know. Here is a painting, here are the colors that they used, and here’s what the painting is about, and here is what it’s called, and here is the artist, and then really describe in detail what the painting is or what the statue is. I would need to have assistance going into detail about what I am looking at.
Jeff Thompson: Makes me think about 3D imaging, 3D printing, I wonder if more and more venues will be starting to have opportunities to you know, touch the art such as using a 3D printer to replicate a piece of art, or a painting.
Molly: Hmm, I have not, I haven’t heard of that but I am not surprised. That would be really nice. Gosh, yeah, and to even have technology in the future that’s even better than now is, so it’s important, it is important to, in whatever environment you’re in, it’s important to be able to touch as a deaf/blind person. I mean obviously if I am at a play, I’m not going to be able to touch the stage and the actors and that type of thing but having an interpreter there that would be interpreting everything you know the stage, and the actors, and that type of thing, that would be really important to be able to enjoy it.
Jeff Thompson: I remember reading about some technology that was coming out. It was gloves with sensors on it so when a signer was signing, it would actually take that information and feed it into a computer for translation.
Molly: I think I saw something about that on Facebook but I couldn’t wrap my head around what it was really meaning. I was also doubtful that technology like that really existed but I have no idea about that. I don’t know if that’s, I just don’t know much at all about that technology.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, what words of advice would you have for someone going through sight loss or hearing loss.
Molly: That’s really hard. I’m just thinking back. So this is just my opinion, I mean if if if, if you were, if this is, I mean if, you suddenly became overnight from a car accident or, an illness, and you suddenly became deaf or blind or something overnight, that is tough to deal with and I, I guess the first part I would say is just needing to jump in and you can, the internet is great. you can go online and you can find support groups to help you. You can use friends to help you, social media is fantastic in terms of support. Definitely I would say, I would recommend counseling to help you get through the emotional trauma of losing one of your senses or both of your senses. A counselor can, a good counselor can help you work through the emotions and you can get through it. The important thing is not to allow yourself to stay stuck forever because you can’t do it yourself, you’ve got to tap into a community organization, counselors, friends, family to help you get over the trauma.
Jeff Thompson: Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf and Minnesota State Academy for the Blind. Minnesota Deaf Blind Project and Minnesota Deaf Blind Association.
Jeff Thompson: They all help.
Molly: Yes, absolutely.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, is there anything else you would like to tell the Blind Abilities listeners?
Molly: Yeah, actually I will add one thing. The real important part is we live in the real world and you become deaf, deaf/blind, blind, whatever age you are, there are interpreters, different types of interpreters that will accommodate your different communication need, whether it’s tactiles or sign language. there are doctors who can help you, I guess my point is that in this real world there are a lot of things that can help you. Accessibility, accommodations that can help you. Having an SSP is very very helpful to help you go grocery shopping, doing some of the basics in life. So it’s not a sign of weakness, it’s more of a sign of strength to ask for help and to rely on other people, that doesn’t mean you’re less independent. When you have a companion, an SSP that comes to help you a couple times a week, when you have an interpreter, and it just opens up the world to you. There are really no excuses to stay home and isolate yourself. There are a lot resources here in Minnesota especially that have organizations, businesses, resources that can help connect you to what you need to be successful, whatever that looks like in your own life.
Jeff Thompson: First of all Molly, I want to thank you very much for taking time out of your day and sharing your journey, your story with all of our listeners.
Molly: Yeah, yeah, it was my pleasure. I’m very very happy to share my story. It helps others.
Jeff Thompson: Molly, your message really rings through to me and I’m sure to a lot of the listeners because there is a point where you have to accept it and face the real world and be part of the real world. that’s a great message.
Molly: Exactly, exactly. An important quote that I rely often is “Deaf, blind, hearing blind, whatever your disability is, you can do it. You will be afraid, you will want to isolate yourself, but don’t go that route, take advantage of all the wonderful opportunities that are out there to help you achieve what you want to achieve.”
Jeff Thompson: That’s great, that’s wonderful.
Molly: Ooh sorry, I wanted to add one more thing, I did a presentation, when was that, let me think. I was involved with the American Disability Act. There was a TPT in the Minnesota, what is it, the Minnesota Public Access, there was some programming they were doing, I want to say this was last year, a couple years ago. I was involved with that as a deaf/blind can. Talked about you know the ADA and how it makes things accessible for folks with disabilities so that is in the archives you know if anyone wants to look it up.
Jeff Thompson: Oh, we forgot to mention that you’re also on the state rehabilitation counsel for Minnesota.
Molly: Correct, I am. Yeah, I a rep for deaf/blind, for the deaf/blind community yes.
Jeff Thompson: Well Molly thank you very much, you’re quite an advocate hear in Minnesota and I am sure a lot of people appreciate all of the hard work that you are doing, so thank you.
Molly: Thank you.
Jeff Thompson: I would like to thank cheechau for his beautiful music, and to Pam, the American sign language signer that participated in this interview.
(Multiple voices) When we share, what we see, through each other’s eyes, we can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff Thompson: For more podcasts with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter at Blindabilities, download our app from the app store. Blind abilities, that’s two words, or send us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org
Thanks for listening.