Full Transcript
Marilee Talkington:
The ego loves it when people love you, and the ego’s hurt when people don’t, but at the very core it doesn’t matter, it’s how you feel about yourself.
Jeff:
Please welcome from Access Acting, Marilee Talkington.
Marilee:
Make your own work. Do not wait for the phone to ring, go after what you want. Go after it.
Jeff:
Acting classes developed for the blind and visually impaired.
Marilee:
That is a fascinating thing, to develop a level of craft, and then to go into a space where the ableism is so profound that they start treating you like a child, even though you’re great at what you do, and it’s a big surprise that you’re great at what you do.
It’s so important that we do the work on ourselves first, so we feel that we love ourselves, no matter what the world is telling us.
Jeff:
Now please welcome Blind Abilities teen correspondent, Simon Bonenfant[1], and guest host Lisa Andrews. We hope you enjoy.
Marilee:
www.access, A-C-C-E-S-S acting.com.
[music]
When I was young we butted heads, really hard, really hard. Yeah.
Simon Bonenfant:
Hello everyone on Blind Abilities, this is Simon Bonenfant here, and I’m here today with a good friend of mine, Lisa Andrews. Lisa, how’s it going today?
Lisa Andrews:
Hey, Simon, so glad to be here. How are you?
Simon:
I’m doing very well, glad to have you here, and today on this podcast we’re going to be talking about acting for the blind, which is something kind of relatively new in our blindness landscape, so what do you think about that, Lisa?
Lisa:
I’m super excited about it. I will not tell you the last time I was onstage, it was quite some time ago, but I still have kind of had a bit of an acting bug, so to have Marilee on and talk about how now acting is accessible to the blind and visually impaired is super exciting.
Simon:
Oh, very nice. Well, as you said, Lisa, you alluded to our guest today, we’re talking to Marilee Talkington from Access Acting Academy, so let’s bring her in!
Lisa:
Hi, Marilee!
Marilee:
Hello, how’s everyone doing?
Lisa:
Pleasure to have you on the show, thanks so much for coming on.
Marilee:
Happy to be here with you all!
Simon:
Oh, thank you for coming on, Marilee.
Marilee:
My pleasure.
Simon:
We’re excited to have you.
Marilee:
Thank you, yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure.
Lisa:
As you know, you came to our radar following the National Federation of the Blind convention, when you were awarded that fantastic grant, which we will talk about later, how that’s going to help you move the academy forward, but I’d love to just get started about this revolution of yours, and how Access Academy is indeed a part of this revolution, what is this revolution, so just tell us more about when it got started, what it is, we’ll start with that.
Marilee:
Sure, great. Access Acting Academy is a professional actor training program, it started out a professional actor training program intensive, and the reason it started is because there was a real hole in the educational sector—conservatories, universities, acting studios, any kind of classes for blind and visually impaired actors. Basically there’s very little training that provides techniques that aren’t visually based. I mean this is something that I’ve been thinking about for a long time, and oh! I should say upfront, so I’m legally blind, I have rod-cone dystrophy, and I’m also an actor, I’ve been acting for about 25 years, and I got my MFA in acting in 2004, and I believe at this point I’m still one of only four legally blind actors to get an MFA, but I experienced, even when I was taking all my classes and doing all my training, everything was so visually heavy, and teachers were not able to accommodate- I don’t want to use the word accommodate, but really bring techniques to me. I had to go to it, and what I mean is I had to continually adapt myself to the visual way of learning, which was difficult, it was extremely stressful. And I got left out of a lot of activities, and exercises. You know, I did it, I got through it, but I realized after that that I have to actually create, from what I know, you know, having a master’s degree in acting, how do I start creating techniques that actually are fully, fully accessible? And dynamic, too, you know—professional training, but also accessible. So I’ve been thinking about this literally for about 16 years, and Access Acting Academy is- was born out of all that thinking about it, and doing coaching with individual blind actors over the many years, and going what works, what doesn’t, let’s keep trying, and also the desperate need to see an experience ourselves onstage and onscreen. We’re not there, we’re invisible, and why are we invisible? I mean, there’s a million different reasons, we could do a whole podcast just on that, but one of the reasons we’re invisible is because there’s no training for us. So it was that time where it kind of hit a tipping point, and I was like “Something has to change.” I was on a show with a bunch of blind characters, but there were only a couple of us who were actually, legally blind, and I was like “Something has to happen.” So, I pushed hard, I got some other folks in the fight as well, and said, “This needs to change,” and they said “Well, we can’t find any blind actors” and I was like “Alright, we’ll start a training program.” And that’s basically what happened, I worked a very long time, or I should say I worked very hard in a very short period of time to push this through in terms of, like, getting the budget together and the research together. I invested about- basically all the money I made on that show I invested, and then I got the budget from Apple to actually do the program. So I funded all the research and all the prep, and then they funded the actual five week program, and we did it, and it was absolutely incredible. And so, we had 11 students in this original five week program that happened in January and February and all of them were legally blind, visually impaired, with all different needs and access points, and we were innovating every single day in terms of alright, this is professional training, what do you need, what do you need, what do you need, and what do you need, great, let’s take care of it and let’s go. So that’s pretty much where it was born out of, and- mm-hm, yeah.
Lisa:
Great, because you’re hitting on so many of the points that I wanted to get from you, so thank you for making this so much smoother. You mentioned about the classes—how you had to go to the material. So with your- you know, you’ve paved the way now, you kind of were what I like to call the crash-test dummy, you know, you went before all the- put yourself out there for the rest of us, but how through that experience do you now ease that barrier and now the classes come to the students, for lack of a better way of phrasing it?
Marilee:
Yeah, I think what it is- look, acting training demands something from any actor, right, so you do have to put yourself forward, but what I mean by that, and such a great question, Lisa—let me just use for an example one of the techniques that people would use to teach. It’s all about eye contact. Connect with your scene partner through eye contact, this is the way that you’re making connections. And that was impossible for me, and when I brought it up, they always used to say “Well, just do your best.” There was no, like, let’s adjust it this way, or let’s think about things this way. The way I had to bring myself to that was I just sort of switched in my brain, this isn’t about making eye contact, this is about making energetic contact. So that’s what I would do, for myself, and then teaching- now, let’s just take that example and go into what we did, and how I would work with blind students before this. In the room, we would be doing exercises and I would say “What is actually”—these are the questions I had for myself and the other teachers—“What is actually the core thing that we want the actors to experience,” and it’s connection. It has actually nothing to do with eyesight, that is one way in, but it’s about connecting to the other person, so let’s come up with different access points, different exercises, so we would actually be working- I’d say “Oh, let’s have two actors face each other. Can you touch each other’s hands on the palm? Great. Can you breathe each other in? Great. Do you feel the other person? Yes. Start taking your hands slowly away. Can you still feel them? Yes. Away. Keep pulling your hands away, away, away, can you still feel them? They are in your space, you are in theirs.” They just made an energetic connection, and that’s really what they eye contact exercise is—connection. And we did this with all kinds of exercises, but that’s basically how we took the visual bias out of the technique and actually just got to the core of what we’re doing. And we used a tactile way of doing it. And then the result actually- it’s deep! It’s the same thing, two actors then are in the same space and they’re talking to one another, authentically, with presence and connectivity. So, does that answer your question?
Lisa:
It totally does, and I’m really getting the revolutionary approach, it’s fascinating. And I’m hearing your approach, I’m curious now how you got others on board, I- when you were looking into your faculty, other than, I mean, of course they would have to have the teaching experience, the master’s, but what did you get to bring them in, what did you get from them, rather, to bring them in? They had to believe in the mission, I would think, but what other natural techniques- because you can’t spend your time teaching the teachers. They have to bring something in, so what was that thing that they brought in other than their acting experience and teaching experience?
Marilee:
Right, that’s also another fantastic question. So, let me just clarify, for this original program, there were three core faculty members: me, a man named Jeff Crockett, and a woman named Nancy Benjamin. Jeff Crockett was one of my teachers, way back when, in the MFA program, he taught voice. He’s been working in the field for 35 years, he is a master embodiment coach, and the way that I sort of brought him in was that I had been actually working with him the year before, I had been doing a bunch of on-camera acting, and I just felt like I needed a- not a refresher, but a deepening of my own embodiment. And so I reached out to Jeff and I said “Hey, you know-” we did an in-person, there was a bunch of ACT grads, that’s where I went to school, ACT—in person, I said would you be willing to do a Skype session with me? Because he was living on the west coast, I was living on the east, and he said “No, I actually don’t do that it has to be in person.” And I was like “Okay, well, if you decide that you want to explore that, I’m here, and he just said “You know what? Let’s try it.” So what ended up happening is he started teaching me over Skype, and I couldn’t see what he was doing, and we weren’t in the same physical space together, and this is the brilliant thing—the Skype video kept turning off for him. So we were in a similar space, and he had to really talk through everything that he was doing, and I realized that the work that he was doing- not only just the embodiment work, but also his willingness to go “Oh! Let me see if I can do this in a different way,” was like the blind community needs this, blind artists need this. He was the main collaborator that I brought on board first, and absolutely, like, he needed teaching. And when you said, you know, you don’t want to have to teach, well, absolutely I had to teach. And it’s hard to just talk about it, you have to actually experience it, so there were some bumps. There were absolutely some bumps, and stuff that he had to come up against, because he loves to be able to visually teach, and so he had to move past that, and start figuring out how to orally teach, because that’s not his first way of communicating as a teacher. So it was me, like, talking about- I mean, he was onboard, by the way, let me just say. You said how did you get teachers on board, he was eager, he was hungry to be more inclusive in his work. That was the core; he was hungry to be more inclusive across the board in his work, and to also evolve as a teacher. That was there from the get-go. And then, when we got into the room, then it was like I would give some feedback here and there, and he would have to just try stuff out—I wasn’t giving him feedback on what he was teaching, just a few things how. Like, he would say “Put your hands here,” and I’d say “Where?” and he’d say “Ah, put your palm of your hand on your sternum.” “Great, thank you, Jeff.” That would be how things would happen, and then he would learn from the students too, because at some point I have to back off. He can’t have somebody looking over his shoulder the whole time, it’s a lot of pressure. So I sort of laid the foundational work, and then the students helped him. And then the other teacher, Nancy Benjamin, Jeff actually suggested Nancy. Nancy is a master Shakespeare teacher, and her work actually is extremely oral anyway, so she was very excited to learn what it would be like to work with blind folks. And same thing, that was a learning process, but the desire to be more inclusive was really core. So, yeah, we’re still working together, so there’s still so much more that they can learn, that I can learn, that everybody can learn.
Lisa:
Yeah. I love that this is, one, filling a void, and born out of seeing that there’s a real need for something, and it’s not just another add-on, but it’s something that’s really needed. Talk about- and I know you only have that one, so you literally had that first intensive and then COVID, correct? Is that-
Marilee:
That’s correct. Boom!
Lisa:
Wow. Talk about trial by fire.
Marilee:
Yeah. Right, right.
Lisa:
But even in that time, I just wanted to know what you were hearing from your students, because now some people may have come to you desirous of some sort of outlet, platform, whatever you- venue, whatever the term you want to use, and for whatever reason have not had it before. What were you hearing, what were you seeing from the students in terms of just eating this opportunity up where they could express themselves in a creative way without also having to go through the frustration you went through? And then what levels of people are you seeing, you know, are they beginners, do you have all types, are you seeing the adults and the children? Just, about the students.
Marilee:
Yeah. So this first group, it’s all adults—we did have one morning of kids, that was a wild day, I’ll talk about that in a second, oh my gosh, that was wild, I didn’t actually put an age range on it so we had a four-year-old show up, and I’m like “What do I do with this, I don’t know what to do with a four-year-old!” But the original class, we had folks I think between ages, like, 22 and 40-something? Varying visual, non-visual experiences, like some people were really beginners. And one guy actually in particular had been acting his whole life, he’s actually had quite an amazing career, he’s had no barriers to education at all, no barriers to the career, but he just started losing his vision three years ago. He was visually impaired, he probably had the most sight out of everybody, but he was looking for a place to figure out how to now navigate the world, gain confidence, his confidence back as an actor. I think that one of the things that was most profound and meaningful for me, and I think for them, was just being able to be in the room with each other. That in and of itself was so paradigm-shifting, because they weren’t feeling like they were missing out. When you’re in a class with sighted folks, more often than not there is a feeling of missing out, and that was not present here. And in fact, what ended up happening is—which was a goal—is that they became more and more confident in their own ability to observe, and I use that word very- not to see, but to observe, and to really trust what they’re hearing, and any visual stuff that they’re actually getting, to trust that, that was right. So their level of perception and trust about that perception grew enormously, because they didn’t feel like they were always missing out on something.
Simon:
And what was the initial reaction from the blind and visually impaired community when you had originally proposed this? What outlet did you use to propose this initial test-drive program to be started and what was the initial reaction from the community?
Marilee:
I used NFB, ACB, anybody—I mean I just sent it out and said, “Spread the word,” like as many- I was on some podcasts, a few other places. You know, it was a five week intensive, so that’s a big demand, that’s a big ask for a lot of people, and we only had like a month for people to decide if they wanted to register for that. That was unfortunately- you know, I was depending on somebody else for the money, and to launch. I would give several months in advance, to get the word out if we were going to do something- that intensive, next time, but anyway, I went to the big girls, big boys and girls organizations, and they spread the word, and the response was small but powerful. Even when it came to pass and we actually did it, there were still people who had just heard about it. So, it didn’t reach as many people in terms of the marketing and the first launch, as many people as I would like, and some people responded and said “I really want to do this, but I can’t commit five weeks, can I be on your email list?” “Sure.” I got a lot of responses for that—like, I want to take classes but can’t move to Los Angeles for five weeks, I don’t have those resources. Even though that program at the time was free, you still had to pay for moving to another city for five weeks, and your housing and all that. But people were thrilled because it doesn’t exist—I mean, now it does, but it didn’t before, so people were so excited about what’s possible. And in terms of the actors, how are they faring right now, I’ve got to say, some of them are flying. You know, COVID slowed things down, but at the end of this particular program there was a showing, some people would call it a showcase, but a presentation of the work. A lot of industry- a lot of industry people came, big industry people, and people got auditions out of the gate, every single person. Every single person.
Lisa:
That’s great.
Marilee:
Out of the gate.
Lisa:
Fantastic.
Marilee:
Yeah. Big stuff, like, even some series regular stuff. Because the work was so strong, was so incredibly strong and professional. So, some of the folks- you know, a couple people actually booked stuff right out of the gate. Now a bunch of folks—they’re performing, they’re performing with each other, they’re doing radio plays, they’re doing podcasts, they’re auditioning for feature films. Now a lot of people—casting directors—are coming to me, going “Do you have this person, and this person?” I’m like “Yeah, I know somebody, here, audition them.” So things are percolating, the business is still slow but things are percolating. And there’s a bunch of folks that are creating their own work now, which is super exciting. I think there’s just a level of possibility and confidence now, with them, and visibility, as well, that they’re like “Okay, let’s go, things are possible, we know it’s hard, but now we have some tools and some resources to start cooking.”
Lisa:
So, now that it’s going to be virtual, though, what do you see as the challenges there? What are you going to have to step over now?
Marilee:
Yeah. Well, not being in the room together, you know, that’s the biggest one, because being in the room together is deeply powerful work. Things can happen in a way that don’t necessarily happen over the interwebs. With that said, going virtual- and I think I didn’t even say that I was going virtual yet, so let me just say that really quickly, is that I decided to take Access Acting Academy virtual, so when this airs I will have launched the fall registration for classes. And there is not going to be a five week intensive, it’s actually going to be weekly classes, sometimes they’re going to be intensives, like three hour intensives or weekend intensives, but what I know to be true because I’ve done it, is that you can still connect to people- I’m doing this with you right now, right?
Lisa:
Yeah.
Marilee:
You can still listen and respond authentically to people over the phone, over Zoom. It’s still a really, incredibly viable way to teach acting, to teach voice, to be taught movement—that’s possible, and it’s actually, it’s going to be delicious. And we’re going to be offering all those things, we’re offering acting, we’re offering voice, we’re offering embodiment, and I’m so excited, Jeff Crocket is actually going to be teaching embodiment, and it’s going to be open, not just to actors, but to anybody, and that’s the cool thing about the virtual- there’s challenges, yes, of course there’s challenges, but the opportunities far outweigh the challenges here because now anybody in the United States, anybody in Canada, anybody all over the world can now take a class with master teachers, and be with one another.
Lisa:
You won’t have to limit the class size at all, now?
Marilee:
I’ve decided 12 people per class, which is fantastic. If you want to take an embodiment class, you’ll be one of 12, if you want to take a voice class, you’ll be one of 12, so you’re still getting that personal, the personal interactions with each other, you still become an ensemble. There’ll be breakout rooms on Zoom, so you can work one-on-one with folks, for the acting classes and for some of the movement classes, for the creating work classes, but now you don’t have to commit to five weeks either. “I just want to take a voice class.” Great, you can take that voice class and see how you feel. You want to just try it out, I’m going to be doing three hour- I think I’m going to call it, I’m not sure what it’s going to be called yet, but it could be called “Acting for the Curious.” And you come and take a three hour intensive that I’m going to teach, see if you like it. And you don’t even have to be an actor, this could be for anybody, and this is the amazing part of this work, too, is now it’s accessible not just to actors, but to anybody. So you can come and take these movement classes and find more freedom, and authenticity, and dynamism as you move through space, as you go to your tech job, as you’re sheltering in place at home. This is for anyone now, and if you want to progress, that’s where the professional track is, and that will keep moving into the spring, and next year, and probably years to come.
Lisa:
Well, good for you, looking past the barrier and seeing this not necessarily as an obstacle but as an opportunity, and in that way of thinking opened up even more doors.
Marilee:
Yeah.
Simon:
So, can you describe for people that are thinking of taking the classes and are thinking of signing up, can you describe a little bit of the overview of the curriculum, of some things that they would expect to find in some of your classes that you’re offering?
Marilee:
Yeah, yes. The fall section is going to be made up of two sessions, actually. The first session is- oh, gosh, do I have the dates in my brain? Third week of September to third week of October, and then there’s going to be a week break, and then last week of October to third week of November. So they’re each four week sessions—most of the classes, there may be one that’s either going to be four weeks or eight weeks, that’s the team musical theater fundamentals class, oh, and we get to do musical theater now, whooo! This is very exciting. So, let’s say, what can people expect? Let me just talk about, like, a four week course. A four week course, some of them are once a week, some of them are twice a week. You will go for an hour, if it’s a once a week class, and, you know, say the first class is really about getting to know each other, doing some ice breakers, you know, starting to build that ensemble. For example, the acting class—you’ll start to get to know each other a bit, and then we’ll just dive right in, I’ll probably end up giving some fundamental history about where the techniques have come from, what techniques have I pulled from, and then we’ll just start doing exercises, we’ll start diving in. I’ll start really from the get-go, in the acting class, I’ll start pairing people up, sending them to breakout rooms, going “Here’s your scene,” and it’s probably- like, the acting class will probably be an open scene which means it’s not something from a play, it’s an open scene which means anybody can play either character, and here’s the criteria: who are you, where are you, what are you doing, create your entire given circumstances, go in a breakout room, rehearse with your partner, talk through everything, and then come back and do it for the rest of the class and we’ll talk about it. So that, like, would be the beginning of the first few acting classes, and then I might move to monologues, and go “Okay, bring in a monologue.” Now we’re going to start talking about how to break down a monologue—script analysis, how do you think about a character, and go off and rehearse. Each person gets to perform it, and everybody gets to listen, for those that have visual perception they’ll be able to visually take in what they want, but it’s less about that, it’s more about, like, what are you hearing? And the way that I teach is like “This is what I’m hearing, this is what I’m hearing,” I do have some- I’m legally blind, I’m not total, so I do actually use some of the vision that I have and go “Okay, I hear this. I think I see your shape going this way, is this what you’re doing? Great, that’s what I hear, can we try it this way?” So you’re getting both teaching and directing. It’s exciting and in-depth, and in terms of, like, the three hour intensives, those are just like, let’s play. You’re going to get on your feet- quote-unquote, get on your feet pretty quickly, and dive in and work, and just see how you feel, and do some improv, and see how you feel. Movement classes—I won’t go into all the curriculum for every single class, but that’s basically- each week is going to build on the week previous.
Lisa:
Wow, sounds great, it sounds really exciting. We were talking about the grant, when we were talking before, how you got on NFB radar—I mean, this sounds like such a huge step forward for the program, for you personally as an artist, how did that all happen, and what are your plans?
Marilee:
Yeah, so, it’s actually not a grant, it’s an award that had a cash element. So I didn’t actually apply for it, which, grants, you have to apply for. It sort of came out of nowhere, but I think that- which was just like “Oh my god, this is so amazing, I can’t believe this is happening,” the NFB knew about the program, and they believe in the mission of getting more blind and visually impaired folks on screen. They believe in it deeply, and I think they also see that the work that I’ve been doing in Access Acting Academy and the work that I’ve been doing as an artist is, you know, I’m one of the first. And as incredible as it’s been, it’s been a hard road. And part of that road is, like, not just carving for me, but hopefully making a little bit more space for people behind me. And so I think they realize that it’s pioneering work, they understand the power of storytelling, they understand the power of media, and so they’re like “Okay, we’ve got somebody now, finally, in the game when we didn’t have one before. We’ve got a horse in the race!” So I think that’s- any of the blind organizations, I mean all the blind organizations know what I’m doing here because it’s just, it’s not- it hasn’t been a secret! And I think everybody wants it, so I think that’s where it came from. I think you would have to ask them exactly, but I think that’s where it came from, and I think in terms of a cash element, which was just stunning, because I, wow, it’s just stunning! It’s for me personally, and it’s my choice to put a lot of it into the academy. I know they want that, but I’m also- because it was given to me, it’s important for me, too, to put some of that money into my own art, because I need to continue to develop as an artist. I need to continue to enrich myself so that I- one, so that I can realize myself personally, but also so I can help others. I need to keep developing, so that money, a big hunk is going to support me, and my growth, and the rest is going to the academy.
Lisa:
That’s great. Well, congratulations, again.
Simon:
Yeah, congratulations.
Marilee:
Thank you.
Lisa:
We do want to know more about the exact dates so we can make sure that’s added to the show, so folks will know exactly when they have- up until exactly when they have to register, pick through the courses, so do keep us posted on that.
Marilee:
Yes. Well, I can tell you the first class will be September 21st. I will be launching the class registration on the week of August 17th, which I believe is when y’all are going to be hearing this out there in audience land, hello! Depending on how quickly things fill up—hopefully they’ll fill up, people are excited about this—we’ll take registration all the way up to September 15th, but the hope is that if you get on it soon, then you can ensure yourself a spot.
Lisa:
That’s great.
Simon:
And can you describe the price options for the classes?
Marilee:
Yeah, it’s really, really important to me to keep these accessible price-wise, and also make sure that the academy stays in the black, that it pays for itself, which is a hard balance.
Lisa:
That’s a balance, yeah.
Marilee:
It’s a hard balance, and to make sure that the faculty gets paid what they’re worth, because- I’m so excited about this, too! I’ve brought in six legally blind teachers from around the world, so we’ve got the two folks that, you know, I was working with in the program, Jeff and Nancy, but six professional, like probably the most- no, not probably, the most successful professional legally blind actors who also are teachers, they’re coming to teach, and it’s so exciting, so we’re actually, like, leading one another.
Lisa:
So did you find them, they find you?
Marilee:
No, I reached- I know all of them, look, we’re connected. There’s very few of us. I reached out to them and they’re so excited about this. So, all that said, in terms of the pricing, some of the intensives, like three hour intensives, will be, like, less than 50 bucks. They’ll probably be like $35.00. But the classes will be, and I’m still- I’m still working on that, so I don’t want to, like, tack myself down to something, but they’ll range somewhere in the realm of, like, 150? Where other classes like this are 225, 275? And there will be an opportunity for those that are just like “This is not financially viable,” there will be some partial scholarships available to support folks that are just like “We just don’t have the means, but we want this.” So, I do have some money set aside just for partial scholarships. So, they’ll range anywhere from, like, 35 bucks to- the Shakespeare class may end up being more, because she’s doing- Nancy’s amazing, she’s actually going to be doing privates as well, private coaching with-
Simon:
Oh, that’s terrific.
Marilee:
Yeah, I should say, Nancy Benjamin is probably one of the foremost Shakespearean teachers in northern America-
Lisa:
Fantastic.
Marilee:
-across the board. She works at Stratford, she works with the best Shakespeare actors in northern America, and she’s working here. So her class may be a little bit more expensive because she’s offering incredible depth and personal stuff, so, yeah, that’s the answer. But I will send you the website, so that you guys feel more con- when I’ve got it up, so you know exactly what the dates and prices are.
Lisa:
That’s great.
Simon:
And can you tell the listeners the website where they can find-
Marilee:
Oh, yes!
Simon:
-the class offerings and contact information?
Marilee:
Absolutely! Friends who are listening, www.access, A-C-C-E-S-S acting.com, www.accessacting.com, look at our offerings. If you’ve never done this before, come! Join the movement, join the revolution, and even if you don’t want to be an actor but you want to find just more freedom in your body, more confidence, more authenticity, just more of you—this is where you can go to do that.
Simon:
Very good. So let’s talk about you personally, and your background and things of that nature, can you talk about what your life was like as you were growing up, and of course you’re legally blind, so can you talk about your early life and schooling and things like that?
Marilee:
Yeah. So, my mom’s blind, and I have what she has. It was really important for her that I be mainstreamed, I was mainstreamed, and here’s the thing—although I was born with no central vision, I had peripheral vision. So I considered myself visually impaired when I was younger, which basically means, you know, like, things were blurry, and I had colorblindness. I wasn’t legally blind when I was a kid, even though I was totally blind centrally, my peripheral vision wasn’t legally blind. My coaches didn’t know I had no central vision and my peripheral vision was blurry. I played basketball when I was a kid, that was something that I loved to do, I loved- I was a point guard, I loved dribbling so much, I loved the feel of it. That was something that just gave me a lot of confidence. I ran track, I ran cross-country. Athletics and being in my body was really important to me, because I’d been around blind folks my entire life because my mom was blind, because we used to go to all the conventions when I was a kid. Society was like “You can only move this way.” People were always getting pushed around, and led, and I resisted that so much, I didn’t have language for it when I was younger, I just was like “I’m not going to be pulled and pushed around.” So I invested in my body, I invested in being strong, and fluid, and nimble, in whatever ways I could, and for me, I loved basketball, I loved sports. For others, you know, it could be gymnastics, or yoga, or whatever, but for me it was basketball, and actually, that kind of saved me, because I didn’t have a whole lot of friends in high school. I knew people, but I was not like, in a group, and I was good at it, and nobody knew that I couldn’t see directly in front of me! Because I would go into the gym and just play and play and play and play on my own, I actually got keys to the gym from the coach, I was that kid, and just go and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and just get it into my body. Because I couldn’t often see the basket, just shoot and shoot, and honestly I worked so hard that I ended up being MVP of the team, actually made it to the California Regional All-Star team. Nobody knew that I had no central vision, no one knew! I wanted it, I did it with my body. And so, I can’t play, like, full-on games anymore, but I still dribble—because I’ve lost too much vision, I can’t see the ball coming to me, but I still dribble. When there’s a court, give me a ball—I’ll just dribble between my legs and around my back, and up and down, and that still is like, great pleasure, but you didn’t ask about that, you asked about my childhood. I’ll just say this really quickly about my mom, you know—I don’t know how it is for other kids with disabilities who have parents with disabilities, but, like, my mom growing up in the era that she did, she had very little choices. Very few choices about who she could be, what she could do as a job, and she was struggling with her own sight loss. Her desire to make sure that I had a stable life was very strong, and also I think it was very, very hard for her to have me. I think there was an enormous amount of guilt and fear. So when we were- when I was young, we butted heads, really hard, really hard. Yeah. In fact, most of our life, up until about 10 years ago, we were butting heads. We’re now at a very different, new place in our relationship, a very powerful and wonderful place, but that was hard. And I can remember- ugh, and this makes me emotional when I think about it, because I think a lot of people in marginalized groups can resonate with this, is that she told me, and I remember it, so clearly, in 4th grade, she said “You’re going to have to work so much harder than everybody else, just to get at the same place. You’re going to have to work so hard.” And I internalized that, and I did.
Simon:
Yep, I’ve been told that, and it’s true, too.
Marilee:
Yes, it’s true. And the thing that went through my brain, that I don’t want to just work hard to be where everybody else is. If I’m going to work hard, I’m going to be better. I’m going to be, like, I’m going to raise the bar even higher.
Simon:
And a lot of times we are, as disabled people, you know, we get into our fields, like you had said before, when we had talked, it’s not about having a space at the table that’s already made, but about making your own space.
Marilee:
Yeah, I think Lisa said that, in fact.
Lisa:
Making our own table.
Marilee:
Yeah, I love that, I love it. Making our own table. That’s right.
Simon:
So at what point did you want to go into the acting field, and at what point did you know that it was your passion, was it something that you’ve always kind of had a passion for, or at what point did you kind of get into the field and think that this is something you wanted to do?
Marilee:
It wasn’t until later. I was deeply self-conscious when I was young, I wanted to really be accepted. Acting mortified me—in fact, the very first acting class- even though I was in a play, one play in high school, it was terrifying. I took my very first acting class, I took at UC Davis, I failed it because I didn’t show up, because it scared me so much. It wasn’t until my very last year of undergrad—I transferred to UC San Diego, and I needed to fill some credits, and my friend’s like “Take an acting class!” And I was like “No! No, no, no way.” He’s like “It’ll be fun, it’s an easy A!” and I’m like “I can’t, I can’t do it,” like, my whole body would seize up. And I couldn’t get into any other class, all the classes I wanted were full, and so I was like “Oh, man, okay, fine, I’ll take the acting class, but if I hate it, I’m getting out.” And literally the second day we were doing monologues, and something just went [clunking sound] inside of me. It just literally happened, and I was like “This is awesome,” and I realized I had a capacity to do something. I was new, I was raw, I was green, but there was something there that was crackling, and calling to me, like, I said, “Okay, this is it,” and I’ve been doing it for 25 years. That’s kind of how it came to pass—whoo, man, it was a rough go, this is a whole ‘nother segment, I’m sure I’m going to write a book about it someday, but I went- I got really good feedback in that first class, and I auditioned for a few things, and then I was like “I’ve got two acting classes under my belt, I’m going to Los Angeles!” And I got creamed, I got creamed in Los Angeles! I was so young, I was so green, and I just- ugh! I hooked up with the wrong people, and it just was a bad situation, and after that bad situation I made the decision that that would never happen to me again, and so, I was like “I have to be trained. I’ve got to go and get training,” and that’s when I started taking night classes, studio classes, and I started taking summer training programs, intensive summer training programs, and then I went and got an MFA that was three years long, so I trained for five years. And I started developing my voice, and like, as soon as I started taking classes I realized that I actually have an artistic voice. I have a vision for my own work. And so I started developing my own work, I started directing, I started writing, I started designing, and I just sort of went where I was curious. That’s kind of like the inception of where things happened.
Simon:
So, going through the field of acting, what did you think the opportunities were going to be like for you as a visually impaired person, and were you surprised by some of the misconceptions- what was the misconceptions that people had, and were you surprised by it, or did you kind of expect-
Marilee:
You know, when I was coming up, my internalized ableism was very strong. I thought that if I could fit in and not talk about my vision, it would be better. And I did, I did do that. It took a long time for me to really, truly love me for me. Because what I was facing, I didn’t have the language for it, and there weren’t support systems- I was the only one. When I brought it up, literally, people would say “Oh, you know, this is a lot of self-pity. You can’t be here, because we have a very specific way of teaching, and it’s important that we stick to that way, so if you can’t do what we’re offering, then this isn’t the right place for you.” And so I would basically lie, for a long time, and that’s hard to talk about, but it’s true. I did that. I don’t do that now, but it took me a long time to come to this place. And it’s very, very interesting, because I found some power in my particular aesthetic and how I viewed the world when I started creating my own work. That was a place where I could do my stuff in a way that I needed to do it, and my work, to be quite frank, was really great. I mean, it was great because I was pushing the boundaries. I started getting attention for my work as a creator, because I was doing things that were sensorial, I was doing things that were site-specific, I was doing things that were more visceral than anyone else was doing, because they were so concentrated on “There are the actors up there, and here’s the audience here.” I was doing things nobody else was doing, and so I was gaining confidence there, and then that confidence started feeding into me as an actor, and being more bold, and not always saying “Don’t worry about it, I got it, I got it.” You know, if something came up, I’d be like “Oh, don’t worry about it.” That gave me the confidence to go “Actually, I do need this, this, this, and this, that will make my life a lot easier,” because I knew what my worth was. It took me a while to get there, but creating my own work really gave me my worth. What I want to say to kind of tie this up is that it’s very interesting now, because I’ve got 25 years in, and I ended up getting a reputation for being kind of an uncanny shapeshifter onstage. It’s something I can do, I’m in my body, I’m actually, I can- [old crone voice] I can change stuff on a dime, right? [New York accent] You know, anything you want, I can do it, and I can do it physically, it’s not just vocally, right, I do whatever. [Southern accent] Whatever you want me to do, I can do it. And my hip is sticking out right now, [voice returns to normal] I can do that, it’s something I can do, and so I got this reputation of being this person that you’ll cast her and she can play eight different characters, and you won’t recognize any of them. You won’t recognize it’s the same actor playing them. Then I started, like, finding power there, and becoming a leading lady. Here’s the interesting part—soon as I moved back to New York a few years ago, and I started doing actual blind characters- they decided, okay, we’re going to have some blind characters, finally, and we’re going to cast an actual blind actor, great, I started doing those, all of a sudden, all those 22 years of work, it’s like they didn’t exist. I went on set, and they’re like “Ohhh, how wonderful you’re here! We’re so glad we got to give you this opportunity! Good for us! Look at you, you’re good!” and it was like I was treated like a child. We know this, we know- I’m speaking to the choir here, I’m sure. But that is a fascinating thing to develop a level of craft, and then to go into a space where the ableism is so profound that they start treating you like a child, even though you’re great at what you do, and it’s a big surprise that you’re great at what you do. So, that’s a long answer to that question, but hopefully informative.
Simon:
That’s a good- very good, very good. So, many of our listeners in the blind community, many of us know and have seen movies and TV shows and things of that nature where they have tried to do blind characters, but for those who don’t know, can you describe how is blindness portrayed in the movies, and TV, and what do you think about that.
Marilee:
Well, that’s a big, huge question. You know, any disability, being portrayed onstage or on film, is thin, because the actors and I think directors and anybody working in that field, they see it and I’m going to steal this phrase from my friend Christine Bruno, they see disability as a technical skill, when in fact it’s a lived experience. What they’re doing—and I have enough vision still to kind of see what people are doing—it’s mimicry, at its core. It’s taking a lived experience and going “Well, I think I’m going to do this thing with my eyes. Well, I’m going to do my hand, and shake my hand, and that’s going to be CP. Well, I’m going to do this thing with my voice, and then all of a sudden I’m going to be somebody who’s hard of hearing.” It’s like they see it as a special skill, and it feels to me, even when people are going “Well, that’s not exactly how blind people move,” there’s consultants out there, some of whom I’m friends with, but you can’t replace lived experience. You cannot replace the depth and richness of lived experience on screen, and that doesn’t mean that I’m playing myself, I am not playing myself in those characters, I am playing the character, but I know something about this that none of those actors do. So that’s my touchpoint, I start from there. They’re playing the blindness, I’m playing the character.
Simon:
I like that.
Marilee:
And I think that’s what happens, is when people get parts that are disabled parts, they play the disability, instead of going “That’s us, who we are, now we’re just going to play the character,” right? So that’s what I think about. We’ve got a long way to go, and a lot of people to change minds, but that’s what I believe.
Simon:
What kind of roles have you done in your career, and what kind of accommodations do you need, and how have you combatted misconception when people question your ability and things like that?
Marilee:
Okay, I’ll go with the accommodations first, because it’s two very big questions. Accommodations, I’ll just use an example. Scripts—this is tough, there’s still a lot of barriers when it comes to text. Even accessing plays- I’m facing that right now, with a publishing company. Some of their plays are not accessible, so I don’t get to read them. It still exists. One of the things that I do, now I have learned to do, I’ve been doing this for years now, is when I get cast in a show I’ll send an email to the stage manager, and I’ll say- most folks know about my vision, but some don’t, and I’ll say “Hey, I need the script-” I’ll actually send them a cheat sheet, I’ll say “I need the script in Word, or in a text format,” because I actually do use Zoom. Sometimes I’ll use screen readers, but I like to be able to use both, and I also reformat my scripts, every single script I get I’ll reformat in a way that I can- you know, I’ll do, like, two lines per page so that I can have it in my hands, and I’ve taught myself how to do that, like, flip really fast, but I will reach out to the stage manager and just say “Hey, here’s the deal, I need my script in this format, also, when we start working, there will be times when I come up to you-” and I will say this to the stage manager, and say “Feel free to pass this on to the director,” which they often do, but the stage manager is really your first contact. There will be some times in the space where I’m going to need- because, you know, they use spike tape on the ground, I’ll say “I’m going to need something else on the ground, to signal where I am in space. Usually my body will remember, but sometimes it won’t, like sometimes I just need something else. My job is to be in communication with you about that, and I will tell you when I need something.” So one of the other things I say, too, is if the director is giving me notes, often I won’t be looking at them, because I will be distracted if I am trying to visually take in information. I will be listening, just note that. And, sometimes on stage- and this is something that I will talk to my fellow actors about, because mostly- there’s only been once that I’ve worked with another blind actor, sorry, twice, mostly I’m working with other sighted actors and when you’re, you know, on a huge stage and you’re 25 feet apart, and they do a gesture and you hear the audience laugh but you didn’t catch that gesture, I’ll say “Hey, Dave, what did you just do?” and he’ll say “I lifted my right arm and I did this.” “Great, can we do that moment again please?” And then he does that and I imagine it for myself, and we keep going, so that I can have a response to it. So there’s things like that that I do, there’s also things like in tech, you know, when you’re rehearsing for the show and you’re actually in the space, you start teching it, I’ll let the stage manager know “Hey, backstage, there will be things that I’m going to need to feel rather than see. Glow tape is great, but I’m going to need to feel stuff to find my costumes, to do my quick changes. Great, good!” So I kind of give them a cheat sheet ahead of time, but I do it very short, I don’t overwhelm them, because it can be overwhelming. What I basically say is “My job is to stay in communication with you, and then we’ll just- we’ll go piece by piece.” Because every show is different, too—I may need something in this show, and I may not need it in another show. So that’s kind of like the starting point of accommodations. In terms of like, how do I deal with people’s low expectations, the core to that- I mean that’s such a- Simon, I could be worrying about that for the rest of my life, all of us can, you know? Like, whatever marginalized group we’re in, and intersectional marginalized groups, the thing that I have to think about is what do I think about me? What do I believe about me? That’s where I have to start with those. If I believe that I’m worthy, then I am. If I believe that I have creative value and expression, then I am, and it doesn’t matter what other people think. When people come at me with “This is not possible,” sometimes I’ll get into it and sometimes I won’t, because sometimes they’re literally not worth my time. It’s not a good use of my energy. Sometimes I do, I will step into the space and go “Let’s talk about this.” They may not realize what they’re doing, and so sometimes I will use that as a teaching opportunity. It’s a lot of labor to do that, it’s a lot of emotional labor to be the teacher all the time. It’s a lot, so sometimes I can’t do it, but sometimes I do do it because I think it’s going to have a ripple effect. But going back to what I said, it’s so important that we do the work on ourselves first, so we feel that we love ourselves, no matter what the world is telling us.
Lisa:
If I could just butt in for a second, Marilee, all of what you just said is huge, and it’s huge for your students, so how do you bring- because that’s not textbook stuff, what you just said. How do you bring that into the classes?
Marilee:
I think the very first thing, and basically for me to get to this place where I can speak like this, I have done personal work for years. I read constantly, I think about things constantly. I read personal growth development books, I have a spiritual practice, I meditate, I exercise, like, I look at other people who are where I want to be, and I listen to what they’re saying, and I surround myself by those people. This is a process, and actually a practice, it’s a daily practice, because there are some days where it gets into my head that I’m worthless. I’m human, I mean, I’m human, right? In terms of how that gets brought into the class, one of the foundational tenets of Access Academy is that you are whole already, as you are.
Lisa:
I love that you say on your website that you are not missing anything, or there’s nothing missing in you.
Marilee:
And that is brought into every single class. It’s how I teach, it’s how everybody teaches.
Lisa:
Love that.
Marilee:
And I will say that at the beginning of class, because I experience this over and over—when a student comes in, there’s an enormous amount of fear. There’s an enormous amount of “I am missing out.” They’re very nervous that they’re going to miss something, and so it’s the first thing I say to folks “You’re not missing anything, you have everything that you need to be here, to be expressed, to be authentic, and to share your expression with somebody else.”
Simon:
Who would you say was the biggest mentor to you, and the teacher that really taught you the most, and what advice did they give to you that you have taken away into your own life and your own work?
Marilee:
Yeah, that’s a tough one. I never had really a mentor, I kind of have been leading my own- walking my own path, but I had teachers that influenced me. A couple pop into my head, there was guy named Gregory Wallace, it was one of the first- before I even went to grad school it was one of the first classes I took, it was an acting class, and somebody was saying “Oh, god, I’m just too afraid of people, I just want the critics to love me.” And he literally was sitting back, and talk about growing up, like, talk about being in a field that was not his, he’s a gay Black man, and a brilliant actor, and his ownership of who he was, was so infectious. And his answer to that student was “It doesn’t matter if they like you, and it doesn’t matter if they don’t. You need to like yourself.” And I’m actually saying that right now, right, I’m actually repeating what I heard from him however many years ago. That has stuck with me ever since. Yes, sure, the ego- the ego loves it when people love you, and the ego’s hurt when people don’t, but at the very core it doesn’t matter, it’s how you feel about yourself. That’s one, and this was less about one person telling me this and more about me being in a community—make your own work. Do not wait for the phone to ring, go after what you want. Go after it. And making your own work is such a huge way to feel empowered, to find your voice, to feel confident, and to find the deliciousness of what it is to create art, and to realize yourself. I heard that over and over by teachers, and by other people who were doing it, because I feel like the best artists that I knew, the most amazing artists onstage, they were creating their own work offstage, they were creating their own stuff with other people, they were devising, so they were amazing performers. Yeah, I mean, I feel like those are the two main things. This is one thing that I have said for myself, and it’s my rephrasing of make your own work, this is what I say to people now, because I’m now a mentor, and this is what I say. If the world does not have a vision for you, a large enough vision for you, you must create that vision for yourself. And then you go after that vision with everything you have, and you do not wait for the world to catch up to what you know to be true about yourself.
Simon:
Right, and I think that’s really, really good advice. So what advice would you give to people that are aspiring to be actors, aspiring to do anything in your craft-
Marilee:
You know, if you want to be an artist, find your tribe. And that’s an easy thing for me to say, it took me a long time to find my tribe, but find those one or two people that are in your corner. And if you are curious about something, follow your curiosity, even if you bump up against barriers- because there’s also this thing, too, like when a door closes- I don’t even know who originally said this, when a door closes I’m looking for the window. I’m like “Where’s the window?” or “Where’s the fence I’m going to crawl over, or crawl under, where’s the- you know, like, where’s the trampoline that I can just fly over,” you know, I’m always looking for the alternative, because this is what I know to be true, too, is that I am responsible for my life. If somebody says no to me, and then I just stop, that’s my choice to stop. I can’t put it on them, because this is a hard business. I’ve heard 10 times more nos just being an actor than I’ve heard yeses. You will hear no, that’s just how life is, so I think that’s what I would say? And this is in any field that you want to go into. Actually, if you want to be an actor, you must train. This is just the practicals. If you want to act, train. Train, go study. Study with people, get involved in your community theaters or whatever, but study, and study with good people because there’s a lot of bad teachers out there. A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. Study with people, get training, and that training never ends. I still work with Jeff Crockett, who’s teaching in the program. I’m actually going to be taking his class, because it’s just a deepening and a deepening and a deepening. I don’t know, just keep cultivating yourself as a human being, too, you know, some actors, they’re just all about acting, and they don’t actually have any lives outside of acting, so their acting onstage is a bit thin, because that’s all they’re bringing, is their acting life. If you want to do other things, go out with friends, read, go on hikes, whatever it is that you do in your life that you love, keep cultivating that. Keep cultivating, because that’s going to bring more colors, more richness, more textures to whatever artwork you do.
Simon:
That’s great.
Marilee:
That’s what I would say.
Simon:
Well, Marilee, I would say that I think it’s a great thing that you’re doing, this is a great thing that’s coming to the blindness community, and I know for me as an actor in a theater setting, I can say that this is something more blind people are going to benefit from, and it’s just something that’s going to really not only enhance the lives of the people that are doing it, but also change the public’s eye on what we can do as blind and disabled people generally. So, do you have anything to add that you would like to say about your program that hasn’t been mentioned here?
Marilee:
I can’t remember if I mentioned there’s going to be adult classes, and teen classes, and there’s going to be a pre-k and parent class taught by a legally blind music therapist that’s just going to be, you know, for kids- for blind parents and sighted kids, for blind parents and blind kids, for sighted parents and blind kids. That’s not been done before, I don’t know what’s going to happen, I’m very interested in that, but I guess what I want to say, and I want to repeat this is that this isn’t just for people who want, like- the work that we’re doing at Access Acting Academy is for folks who want to pursue acting, but it’s also for folks who are just curious about it, and it’s also for folks who know they don’t want to be an actor, but they want to have some play, they want to feel a little play in their lives.
Simon:
Cool.
Marilee:
They want to be more in their voice, they want to be more in their body, they just want to do something that has never been available to them. Have everybody in class- I hope to have you in class, Simon!
Simon:
Cool.
Marilee:
Simon?
Simon:
Yeah?
Marilee:
I hope you will take class with us.
Lisa:
I think it’s great, and I think we’re going to be circling back with you, because I’m very curious about the work that has yet to be birthed out of you. It sounds like you’ve been chomping at the bit already, and I don’t want to put you on the spot if you don’t want to divulge what you’ve got in the hopper, that’s fine, it’s an excuse for us to just have you back. I mean if you want to share, then of course we’re all ears!
Marilee:
Gosh, yeah, in terms of acting, well, I’m writing right now, I’ve been writing a TV pilot, and I’ve never done that before, so that’s fun. Acting-wise, you know, things have been pretty slow in the business lately, so I don’t know what’s going to happen in terms of, like, other people casting me. I don’t know, because things are really uncertain, but I am actually starting to create a new piece in my garage. I’m going back to my roots, which- what I was doing like 15 years ago, and part of the money that I was awarded, I’m actually building a dance studio in my garage.
Lisa:
Awesome.
Marilee:
Yeah, I’m really, really excited, with- dance floor, a marley floor, and I’ve been wanting to do this for a really long time, and this is the time, but I’m actually- I’m putting up an aerial point, so I’m actually going to start doing aerial dance and bungee dance in my garage, and start creating pieces, movement, text pieces, and then who knows, I’ll probably end up- you know, it’s so wild to hit a certain level in your career and then kind of circle back to where you started in a new way, it’s really kind of exciting, but I’m going to be adding film elements, and then probably lift up the garage door and do private showings for people walking by. You know, like, just something to keep feeding me, so I keep growing, and I’m sure that I’ll film stuff and put it on the web, you know, share the work, but that’s what I’m doing.
Simon:
That’s great. And can you give your website to the listeners again?
Marilee:
Sure, www.accessacting.com, see you there, come visit, it’ll be great, we’re going to change the world together because it’s a revolution!
Simon:
Alright, well, thank you Marilee for all the work that you’re doing, and congratulations on the award from the NFB.
Marilee:
Yes, thank you.
Simon:
And I think it’s great, what you’re doing, and Blind Abilities is in full support of you, and we’ll have to have you back on soon to talk about your future endeavors.
Marilee:
Thank you.
Simon:
So thank you very much, Marilee.
Marilee:
Thank you, it’s been a pleasure to talk to you.
Lisa:
Thank you so much, Marilee, it was a delight to have you, thank you.
Marilee:
Thank you.
Jeff:
Such a great interview, thank you so much, Marilee, for coming onto Blind Abilities, and Simon and Lisa, awesome job, yourselves, great job. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, be sure to check out Blind Abilities on the web at www.blindabilities.com, follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and check out the Blind Abilities skill on the Amazon devices. Drop us an email at info@BlindAbilities.com, or give us a call at 612-367-6093, that’s 612-367-6093, we’d love to hear from you. If you want to hear your voice on the podcast, just give us permission, we’ll get it out there for you. Thank you Chee Chau for your beautiful music, and from all of us here at Blind Abilities, to you, your family, and friends, through these challenging times, stay well, stay informed, and stay strong. Thanks for listening, we hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff:
For more podcasts with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities. Download our app from the app store Blind Abilities, that’s two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening.
Contact Your State Services
If you reside in Minnesota, and you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361.
Contact:
You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities
On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com
Send us an email
Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Storeand Google Play Store.
Check out the Blind Abilities Communityon Facebook, the Blind Abilities Page, and the Career Resources for the Blind and Visually Impaired group