Full Transcript:
Pardy:
My vision started to get worse back in 2012, the great year of the London Olympics and Paralympics. Looking back I had quite a few nasty incidents outside one of the London central stations – Kings Cross, I was struck by a double decker bus going 30 miles per hour, just inches from death.
Jeff:
Please welcome Pardy Gill, in his journey of denial and acceptance of blindness.
Pardy:
When I began to get more engaged with other visually impaired people, that really benefited me because I realized at that difficult period of the emotional rollercoaster of sight loss, that I wasn’t on my own and I could learn tips and tricks from others.
Jeff:
Pardy is a COVID-19 survivor.
Pardy:
I started to get symptoms of a dry cough, a sore throat, and a heightened fever which a few days later went up to 104, and cold shivers. I shrugged it off, but it came to the point where I had to be hospitalized, and called for an ambulance because it really got very difficult. And I had the dreaded COVID test, the nasal and the tonsil swab test, and I was COVID positive.
Jeff:
Stressing the power of learning through peers and community while bringing awareness through advocacy.
Pardy:
A big psychological barrier, because I remember back in my school days when I saw the blind person with the white cane, and I said “I’m not one of you,” even though I knew I was visually impaired, I knew my vision was good enough.
Jeff:
Interview by Blind Abilities correspondent Simon Bonenfant. Now please welcome Pardy Gill, we hope you enjoy.
Pardy:
We can all achieve greatness in our own unique way. And we live in such an extraordinary time now, even in these strange virtual times, when we can all be uplifted and empower each other. So I think utilize all the networks that are available to you, and just don’t let anything stop you.
Simon:
Hello everyone, on Blind Abilities, this is Simon Bonenfant here, and today in the virtual studio, I have the pleasure of speaking with a good friend of mine named Pardy. Pardy, how’re you doing today?
Pardy:
I’m doing very well. Thank you for inviting me, Simon. Much appreciated.
Simon:
Oh, great to have you on here. It’s really a privilege to be speaking with you and very nice to talk to you. I think what I’ll do first, is I think I’ll just tell the listeners how we got connected briefly, and how we met up. We met up on a WhatsApp meeting and we’ve been talking for a while and Pardy has just kind of told me his extraordinary story in his life, and I said we’d have to get it on the podcast, so it’s great to have you with us. Pardy, why don’t you just give a little bit of an overview of your life and how your life has evolved.
Pardy:
Okay, so I’ve always been visually impaired. I was born with a condition called retinopathy of prematurity, which I believe you also have, don’t you Simon?
Simon:
Yes, I do. Yes.
Pardy:
I’ve also been a ropey baby, so I was born prematurely. And that’s when the blood vessels around the retina are abnormal, leading to retinal scarring and leakage and detachment. For many years of my life up until about several years ago, I effectively lived in the sighted world, so I’ve always had a lazy eye but didn’t look blind. I didn’t have a white cane, and I didn’t associate with many blind people after I finished mainstream education, and led quite a successful life in varied careers. Having gone white cane training, I’ve embraced a new VI life. My ethos has always been to help friends and try and make a difference in some of the charities I lead in the UK now, and also challenging myself, which is also something that I really strived to do in the past few years because sight loss is frustrating, but I channeled my frustrations to try and find solutions.
Simon:
Great. What was your understanding of your visual impairment, and did you think it was going to get worse? Did you know it was going to get worse? And how did you feel growing up with a visual impairment, how did people treat you?
Pardy:
I spent several years in a blind school. But when that closed down, I moved to mainstream private education, and I got the support of visually impaired teachers that helped me in that education in terms of note taking and having a monocular, so I managed my education pretty well. I got a good level of university education and did a degree in genetics, which- I’ve always been fascinated with science in my education. I managed quite well looking back. I didn’t need many reasonable adjustments, but they were there. For example, like I said, it was a monocular. And when I went into work, it was also a similar thing. When I say I’ve been in the sighted world, I didn’t need to associate with many visually impaired people because my life was quite normal, to be honest. I didn’t look blind. And I did quite a few things in my 20s, I did the London Marathon in sub four hours, I trekked to Everest base camp and the Trans-Siberian trade in Russia, I’ve always had the travel bug. I’ve always been conscious of my sight loss, but it hasn’t impeded me from doing the things that I’ve done in my early part of my life.
Simon:
That’s great. You’ve always had the spark of adventure and to challenge yourself in your life. Why don’t you talk about some of the businesses that you ran, and some of the things you’ve been involved in, in your work?
Pardy:
So after I finished my university degree in genetics, I was really keen to be a scientist, I was fascinated back in 2000, to get into genetics, because that was the era of genetic developments and all of that. So I spent a year working in research and development for a pharmaceutical company. And as a visually impaired person, they gave me support that I needed in adaptations in the laboratory, and I enjoyed that, it was really positive, seeing how drug development works. But I found, as some listeners may resonate, that it just wasn’t the career path that I wanted, even though there was progression in there. I then transferred to working for an American investment bank, as an analyst advising on large scale corporate transactions, and it was a lucrative career – again, as a VIP, the only adaptations I needed was really a monocular, and also having advanced copies of PowerPoint slides, which I couldn’t see, and having a large-screen monitor closer to me. Other than that, it worked well. So I spent a few years working in that, traveling the world – I didn’t really have a work-life balance, Simon, in that work. And I came to the point when I realized I wanted more in my life, and then I did a master’s in politics. And then I was thinking what to do next, and I started to join the civil service and for the past 15 years, I’ve progressed up to a senior civil servant. But also during that time, I’ve also been focusing on family businesses, I have a successful family property development business in my second home of British Columbia, in Canada. So I’ve been keeping quite busy over the years.
Simon:
Oh, congratulations, Pardy. That’s terrific. So when you started to lose your vision, what kind of prompted you to, say, you needed more than a monocular, and what kind of prompted you to kind of enter into the blindness community?
Pardy:
My vision started to get worse back in 2012, the great year of the London Olympics and Paralympics, and looking back, Simon, I went through a denial stage, which many listeners may also have gone through, when I started to get blurred vision, and just shut off, I thought it was a one off. And looking back, I’ve had quite a few nasty incidents outside one of the London central stations, Kings Cross, I was struck by double decker bus going 30 miles per hour, just inches from death. And then I was fallen on a rail track, because my vision was getting worse, but I refused to accept that it was, and it was only at that point, after these accidents, I realized that I needed some mobility support and orientation. Because I didn’t associate myself as being blind or visually impaired, I didn’t want to be part of that stereotype. So I reached out for some white cane mobility training, and it took me two years to go through that, Simon. For me, it was a big psychological barrier, because I remember back in my school days, when I saw the blind person with a white cane, and I said “I’m not one of you,” even though I knew I was visually impaired, and my vision was good enough. But I went through intensive training, and I became competent to use a cane. It is a big barrier, looking back, and everyone manages in their own way, on the sight loss journey. There’s no right or wrong way, Simon. But during that period, when I began to get more engaged with other visually impaired people, that really benefited me, because I realized at that difficult period of the emotional rollercoaster of sight loss that I wasn’t on my own, and I could learn tips and tricks from others. And also, more importantly, Simon, the humorous aspect of sight loss as well, which I thought was equally important. So during that difficult transition period, when work was very supportive as well, it was quite challenging, but I embraced it- and my left eye was removed. So I had that removed several years ago. And over the past three years, my vision has got significantly worse in the good eye, because of high eye pressure. So it’s been a constantly evolving roller coaster of trying to adapt to situations, and it still frustrates me every day, but my whole ethos of the past few years has been to challenge myself and push the boundaries, and sight loss for me has been a stimulating voyage of discovery, embracing new friends, challenges, and accomplishments.
Simon:
So when you were going through your white cane training, can you describe a little bit about what they had you do and what it was like for you, some of the challenges and also triumphs of that journey?
Pardy:
It took me a long time with a mobility instructor to become confident to use it, because for me it was a perception of people seeing me as a white cane. That was a big barrier. But it was small steps, it was first of all, learning how to safely use a cane with the technique, and identifying curbs. And that took some time on familiar routes, first of all, which I became accustomed to, and then once I became satisfied with that the rehab worker started to train me on more unfamiliar routes, and just following me, then giving me guidance on what went well and what didn’t go well. And I think looking back, they were really calm and patient with me. And I greatly admire them for that, because it really gave me that boost, that emotional confidence that I could go out independently and now it’s second nature to me.
Simon:
So when you finished your white cane training, you were obviously continuing at your work in the civil service, and of course, as you said, you took the spirit of adventure and challenge with you that you had before, and you wanted to embrace it in the new blind community that you were part of. So what kind of programs did you seek out after you finished your training to enrich yourself? And what kind of programs do you do today?
Pardy:
Looking back, it’s been quite a fascinating journey, Simon. Once I started to get more acquainted with VI friends and build friendships, I find nothing beat that peer-to-peer support. And being a good organizer in my life and a communicator, I started to see the magic in that and I started to organize VI holidays voluntarily for friends – doing adventure breaks up in one of the national parks in England, organizing the rail travel, going internationally to Tenerife, and to theatre trips, and I thrived on that. It was great to see lots of VI friends getting together, having fun, and nobody talking about sight loss. It was all about embracing what we could do and what we could achieve. So that’s something that I really thrived on, organizing holidays and trips. And like yourself, Simon, I saw your- heard about your great drama productions. I took part in, very recently, drama, something that I’ve really embraced, I heard about an opportunity through Extent, which is one of the UK’s leading performing arts companies for VI actors. And an opportunity came up four years ago, for me to take part in a theatre production with them, for four months of intense rehearsals, performing live on stage, and I’d never done it before, but looking back, that was really quite inspiring for me, because I think for any VIP, the talent of going onto a theater stage and performing is absolutely fantastic and it really uplifted me during what was quite a difficult period, so having the opportunity through drama really inspired me. Other activities that I’ve done, and programs- I’ve always enjoyed the sea, Simon, I’ve been brought up on boats and yachts. And there’s an organization called the Jubilee Sailing Trust in the UK who have a fully inclusive tall ship, which accommodates people of all disabilities. And there’s obviously word of mouth, Simon, that I heard about these opportunities, so I took part in a tall ships race from Antwerp to Lisbon a few years ago, and the tall ship was fully accessible to people of all disabilities. So I was able to effectively steer the ship with an audio compass, which is terrific, it’s fully inclusive, going up the rigging, things from off the deep end, learning how to use the ropes in sailing, and I thrived on being challenged in that environment. And that was really positive, because it showed me the possibilities are endless despite having a visual disability and trying to contend with that at the time. Since then, I’ve also taken part in blind golf, because golf has been a real pleasure for me for many years. But blind golf is a great way to continue that. Taking part in a sighted Rowing Club in London, and accessible travel- I’ve always had the travel bug and realizing that I can get assistance on planes and the rail network in London and the London Transport system, it means that I can still be independent. Another program that I’ve really been uplifted by and worked on in recent years is- I’m a Sikh, Simon, I’m from northern India, my parents and family are, and in the ethnic community, in the Asian community, there has to be on disability and sight loss, unfortunately, and I’ve seen it with family members, because there’s that lack of awareness of how do you deal or support somebody with a sight loss that you never come into contact with. And so in the past few years, and more recently, in COVID times, I’ve done lots of sight loss motivational talks in the UK, to Canada, and to India, on Zoom and physically, to places of worship, because that’s really uplifted me, if I can improve somebody else’s life with a sight loss, don’t suffer in silence. And that’s been really, really encouraging, for me.
Simon:
That’s terrific. How have you helped your family and Asian community to embrace disability, that’s got to be a hard thing to navigate around yourself, and then also kind of coach your family on how to interact with you, so how have you done that, and what has been the outcome of that?
Pardy:
Oh, it’s been challenging. Obviously, I’m not gonna fix everything very easily. But it’s about breaking down those misconceptions and those barriers – for example, what a white cane does for me, what gadgets I use that help me in my day-to-day life, technology that helps me- as you know, technology is absolutely wonderful now to assist VIPs in independent living. So it’s raising awareness about the possibilities that are out there and breaking down those long-held stereotypes and misconceptions. I’ve got a family member who recently became blind and that’s also helped to raise awareness, so it’s something I’m really passionate about and am working with friends in the UK to carry on doing.
Simon:
Oh, that’s great. You also have told me many times, we’ve talked about it, that you’re involved in the NFB of UK, and for those who do not know the NFB stands for National Federation of the Blind of UK and I know a lot of our listeners are going to be familiar with the NFB of the United States, but I was very pleased to know that there’s a lot of work being done in the UK on an NFB of UK. Can you talk about your involvement and how you find out about it and now your board position there?
Pardy:
Absolutely, Simon. It came about by pure chance, to be honest. In the UK, we have quite a fragmented system of support for VIPs. Listeners may have heard of the Royal National Institute of Blind People, RNIB, and I’ve been a volunteer campaigner with them for quite a few years, and they offer services to VIPs nationally, but it’s also local sight loss charities from whom I got my rehab training, and it just by pure chance a few years ago, when I came across the NFB UK when I was having a campaigning meeting, when my vision began to get worse. And so I became acutely more aware of the barriers that are out there, Simon, in urban environments that discourage VIPs from independently navigating. So I heard about the NFB, I became active in the London branch the NFB has been running for just over 70 years since 1947. It’s a small grassroots organization, similar to the USA, obviously much bigger over there. But it was set up and founded by VIPs for VIPs, as an independent, non-political self-help campaigning group that would lobby and make effective change on policy that would benefit VIPs through local and central government.
Simon:
So Pardy, what challenges do blind people in the UK face and how is the NFB of UK been helping to change those barriers and misconceptions?
Pardy:
Since becoming more active in an NFB, I’ve become aware of the campaigning priorities and the problems. I think one of the key problems I found, since my vision’s got worse, Simon, and navigating independently with a white cane is inaccessible street design. I’m not sure about you across the pond, but lots of urban spaces called shared spaces have cropped up in the UK and in Europe in recent years. And for listeners that don’t know, shared spaces are effectively areas where the curbs and the sideways or pavements, and the control crossings are all removed with the benefit that would improve traffic navigation, and also help passengers and motorists, pedestrians to navigate. But the problem is that for VIPs, it means that you have to make eye contact, which as a blind person, you can’t do, so it’s caused a lot of anger amongst VIPs and I’ve been really pleased to lobby on behalf of NFB UK with that with central government, and there is currently a pause on shared space schemes. There are other priorities that we’ve been working on in the UK, with cyclists on pavements becoming more of a menace, the rise of scooters, which I know is also a problem over in North America, Simon, and also in COVID times when accessible information is so important and access to online supermarket delivery slots. So one thing that many of our organizations have been doing is collaborating together to amplify our voice, and I’ve been working with other organizations to lobby on the impact of social distancing, because the physical and mental fatigue of lockdown has had a huge effect on the independent mobility of many friends that I know. And through lobbying, we have gained some guidance from the government that can help in that area. But there’s still more that can be done.
Simon:
Oh, yes, that’s great that you’re helping out with that, and of course, we could always do more. But all of it helps, all of it helps. Pardy, you also help out in the NFB with the social aspect, and I know you just planned and you had a successful event. Can you speak on that for us, please?
Pardy:
Thank you, Simon. So it’s been a real privilege to know some really inspiring and empowering friends in the organizations that I’m involved with, especially in the new normal that we now live in. I believe that the social connectivity of VIPs is just as important as a campaigning element. And it’s something that I’ve been doing for quite a few years since I’ve become active in NFB organizing, a big trip to Buckingham Palace last year when the state rooms are open and having that audio described to us. But more recently, we’ve had an annual physical social weekend and last year organized that successfully for 100 VIPs, which went really well, because like I said before, nothing beats that peer support and just VIPs having a fabulous time and doing things that everyone else would do. And more recently, and this like crazy idea came into my head – why not do it virtually? Everyone has embraced zoom, haven’t they, Simon?
Simon:
Oh, yes.
Pardy:
I know that you had a talent show, didn’t you, a month ago, which went really well.
Simon:
Yes, I did.
Pardy:
And so I was really uplifted by this idea, and I’ve got a wonderful group of friends together in London, and we pulled off an extraordinary weekend, all voluntarily with no monetary reward, doing activities and events such as comedy, virtual wine tasting, having a talent show, some guest speakers from drama, technology and accessible holidays, cookery, and something for everyone. And they’ve got some wonderful feedback. I think it’s something that in these dark and challenging times that we’ve faced because we’re currently in an English national lockdown, I think that brought smiles and enjoyment to people’s faces, which I’m really proud of.
Simon:
What is the attitudes of the public in the UK, of the sighted public, about blind people? Is there a lot of misconceptions, and what have you encountered? And how have you changed people’s perceptions of blindness?
Pardy:
There’s a lot of misconceptions out there. I’ve come across it over the past few years. But I think one of the positive things since the success of the London Paralympics in 2012, has been that heightened awareness of disability, but I find whenever I navigate to the white cane, in London and elsewhere, people are generally very accommodating. You always get the occasional people that aren’t aware and I take it with a bit of humor, sometimes Simon. My reaction a few times when people say “Oh, it must be magical to be blind,” and I’d respond with “One eye’s gone past the sell-by date, and the other’s rotting away!” You’ve got to take things with a bit of humor sometimes.
Simon:
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Pardy:
I think there’s still a long way to go. Because I do find that there are still stereotypes of people not understanding what a white cane is – I know in North America, you have a white cane law, don’t you, Simon?
Simon:
Yes.
Pardy:
In the UK, we’re doing well. But I think it’s through our collective campaigning efforts, not just through NFP and or RNIB, but rather organizations amplifying the voice and raising awareness of that- that things can get better.
Simon:
Yes, absolutely. So right now we’re in this time of COVID lockdown, as we record this in November of 2020. And all of us have been impacted by COVID in some way, and the lockdown and social distancing measures, but you’ve had a very personal brush with COVID. Can you talk about your experience on that?
Pardy:
Definitely, Simon, so I’ve always been immunosuppressed, since my left eye was removed because my consultant thought I may have an autoimmune disease. For the past five years, I’ve been taking immunosuppressant medication. So when COVID came in the UK in March, I received a letter saying that I would be shielding because I was clinically very vulnerable, given my immunosuppression. And the day very well, March the 23rd, when the Prime Minister made the announcement, and I went to Cambridge for my blood tests a few days later, and the following day, I just started to get symptoms of a dry cough, a sore throat, and heightened fever, which a few days later went up to 104 and cold shivers. I shrugged it off. But it came to the point where I had to be hospitalized and called for an ambulance because it really got very difficult. And I had the dreaded COVID test, the nasal and the tonsil swab test, and I was COVID positive. It’s all very surreal looking back, Simon. I still get flashbacks from the whole experience, and I spent a month in two different hospitals. Being immunosuppressed – the staff did their utmost in such a challenging time, at the height of the pandemic in London at the end of March, when I was kept in separate private rooms, when I couldn’t project my voice, I couldn’t make eye contact. So it was a hugely challenging time as a visually impaired person. But I’m very grateful to the wonderful staff of the NHS who dedicated their time to looking after me and helping me, in such- what was a difficult time, I still get flashbacks. I’ve made a good recovery from it. But more recently, I’ve started to suffer what they call long COVID, when I get bursts of fatigue, and I have actually been helping out in virus research studies recently in the UK along that lines. I’m very grateful to have got through it, Simon.
Simon:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, thank God.
Pardy:
The scariest thing for me, as you can probably appreciate – VIPs, we’re very tactile, aren’t we?
Simon:
Yes.
Pardy:
When we orientate, navigate, we touch things, objects and walls without thinking about it. And I don’t know about other listeners, but I always touch my eye intuitively. And looking back, I try to think how did I get COVID, I’ve looked at my own contact tracing, and I couldn’t figure it out. It could have been somebody asymptomatic, it could have been on the London Transport system, and that’s the most scariest thing because as a VIP, we are more vulnerable given the fact that we are more tactile. And I’m just very grateful for the whole experience, that I have come out and have a new lease of life and appreciate the smallest things that I once overlooked.
Simon:
Absolutely. Absolutely. It gives you a whole new look on life.
Pardy:
It does.
Simon:
So given the circumstances, what ways did you communicate with the staff and were they equipped to understand your situation?
Pardy:
It was very difficult. One thing I did take, and once- of course, I would never wish any listeners to be hospitalized with COVID, and of course simple common sense, is good respiratory and hand hygiene, sanitizing harnesses and your white canes. But looking back, the measures that I took when I just had to be rushed into hospital was just getting all of my paperwork ready, the numerous letters of my medical practitioners about the medication that I’m on and my lengthy medical history, that’s something that really helped the consultants when I was in a very difficult place and I couldn’t really speak at the time, and it’s very difficult for my family to communicate with me of course as well. At the time, when I could do, I did tell the medical professionals and nurses, because as VIPs we take in a lot of information in our day to day lives, but I wanted to give out as much information as I could, at the start of my visual disability, so I told them that if I was going somewhere unfamiliar, I needed them to let me know, verbally describe, audio describe everything that was in the room, orientate me to the washroom facilities, for example, introduce themselves by name when I was in a difficult place as it was and everything was just so confusing, simple things like that, which made it easy for me in that situation, when obviously, I couldn’t project my voice. And one thing they did do was they had a physical sign in my private room that said something along the lines of “Blind.” But that was a simple physical sign that just made everyone aware because the medical personnel were changing day by day. So clearly, they couldn’t get the message across to everyone. But that simple sign just made it clear that I needed additional help and support and then made those reasonable adjustments to me. So I think the key advice I would give to any listeners who are unfortunate enough to be hospitalized with COVID is give out the information as much as you can, because that would make your experience much easier in hospital. And that’s something that I found.
Simon:
Oh yes, it’s really very, very good that you recovered, and you are safe. That’s really, really a miracle.
Pardy:
Thank you, thank you Simon. You know, looking back, it’s been a traumatic time, and obviously we’re not at the end of COVID. But it’s been interesting, because some of the treatments that have been proven to be effective, such as dexamethasone, that’s something that I’ve been taking in my eyedrops for several years, and also have had IV steroids, the consultants, I think, and that may have helped in my situation, because I was in intensive care on nasal and facial oxygen for a few days, and possibly that may really have helped to save my life in that difficult situation. So I’m very grateful.
Simon:
Absolutely. And I’d like to give a shout-out to all the nurses and doctors that are on the frontlines in the hospitals, helping fight COVID. I’d like to say that we recognize you as a hero, and you’re doing a lot of good work for those people out there, helping people, doing a lot of good work.
Pardy:
Absolutely.
Simon:
As you can say. Pardy, given all your life experiences, you’ve had a really, really wonderful life and you’re fortunate to meet a lot of people, what one or two pieces of advice would you like to give out to the listeners that you have found helpful and you’d like to pass on?
Pardy:
I think for me, it’s been- soon as you get the opportunity, as I mentioned before, if you’re unlucky enough to go through vision loss at any point in your life it’s an emotional roller coaster. But I found that challenging myself and seizing the opportunities that are out there, are extraordinary, and utilize your peer support networks and the technology and all the other opportunities that are out there to seize the potential, because we can all achieve greatness in our own unique way. And we live in such an extraordinary time now, even in these strange virtual times, Simon, when we can all be uplifted and empower each other. So I think utilize all the networks that are available to you, and just don’t let anything stop you.
Simon:
Absolutely. Thank you very much, Pardy, for that advice, it’s really, really good. So you, like me, are into music. We share a love of music and you really have a song that really fits your mantra in life. Can you talk about the song and then we’ll play it for listeners?
Pardy:
Oh, thank you, Simon. It’s a song called Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now by Starship. The words resonate with me. And I’ve done it in karaoke, unfortunately, a few times, but the words of “And we can build this thing together, standing strong forever, nothing’s gonna stop us now” is a powerful message in my view, especially in the times that we face when we can all work together, amplify our voice as a global VI community, and reach great potential.
Simon:
Pardy, your life and the work that you do is a testament to the theme that nothing’s gonna stop us now. So Pardy, I wish you the best in all your endeavors in your life, and all the people that you have helped, you really make a big difference to the blind community, and for that we’re very, very grateful.
Pardy:
Thanks, Simon.
Jeff:
Such a great interview. Thank you, Simon Bonenfant, and thank you, Pardy Gill, for your inspiring story and for sharing your journey from denial to acceptance of blindness. And thank you for helping bring awareness to blindness around the world. Be sure to contact your State Services for the Blind, your Voc-Rehab, and find out what they can do for you. Live, work, read, succeed. For more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store. That’s two words, Blind Abilities. And if you want to leave some feedback, give us some suggestions, give us a call at 612-367-6093. We’d love to hear from you. A big shout out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music, you can follow Chee Chau on Twitter @lcheechau. And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, through these challenging times, stay well, stay informed, and stay strong. I want to thank you for listening, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff:
For more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that’s two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening.
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