Full Transcript
Tanja:
In general, we have to adapt to situations and it kind of is- what it means to be human is be adaptable and overcome challenges.
Jeff
Please welcome voice artist Tanja Milojevic.
Tanja:
I got that role as the artificial intelligence for the ship, and that was a lot of fun. The AI becomes more and more sentient, as time goes on. So getting that balance right is an amazing challenge and I loved it, of sounding artificial and having certain words always sound the same, but slowly putting emotion into it.
Jeff:
A passion for audio drama, and a drive to achieve her goals.
Tanja:
Actually, I’m old school still, I use Goldwave. I love it. Everything is accessible, so if you’re using JAWS, NVDA, voiceover, whatever, it doesn’t matter.
Jeff:
Collaborating, sharing, and networking. It’s all part of the passion for the theater of the mind. Lightning bolt. Theater of the mind.
Tanja
One thing my TVI recommended back when I was in elementary school was to practice my braille speed by reading into my recorder, and then listening to myself and just to hear what I sound like and what I can improve on.
Jeff:
Now please welcome Tanja Milojevic. We hope you enjoy.
Tanja:
This place ruined us. It turned us against each other. The solitude I initially fell in love with became overbearing. All the talking, too much. Too much talking. Too much talking. Just me, her, the flies, and the heat. And the whiskey. I can’t take this anymore.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities, I’m Jeff Thompson. Today we have a guest in the studio and I’m really excited about this, it’s an area that I’m really interested in. It’s about audio dramas, voice artist work. She’s an actor, she’s a writer, voice artist, a creative, and she’s really cool. Tanja Milojevic, welcome to Blind Abilities.
Tanja:
Hi Jeff, thank you so much for having me on the show, I’m super excited to be here.
Jeff:
Oh, I’m excited that you’re on the show as well. I mean I sent out that email when you responded back and it was all good. I was doing the happy dance, so hello, Tanja, welcome to the show and I’m really excited to meet you.
Tanja:
It’s really exciting to meet you too. I’ve seen you all over the place online, and of course I’ve heard your podcast so I love the show. I love what you do, a lot of informative stuff out there, and I always look forward to new episodes, so cold emailing is the best. Don’t be afraid to cold call or reach out to anybody you like, you know, like their work, what have you. It is awesome.
Jeff:
You got to take a chance.
Tanja:
Absolutely.
Jeff:
Tanja, I’ve always been fascinated with audio, and when I was reading about you and audio drama I just knew I had to get you on the show. I’m really fascinated with this audio drama stuff.
Tanja:
Me too. I mean, the beautiful thing about audio drama is you don’t have to see what’s going on on the screen, and it’s not just one narrator, it’s like a movie for the mind.
Jeff:
I like that. Well, we’re gonna get into all of that. I want to start out with you, Tanja. You came to United States at a very young age.
Tanja:
That’s right, yeah, I came here when I was five and a half for surgeries. Before that I’d come here for, you know, various- since I was a baby basically, since I was like, one year old, I came here for various surgeries, and then by the time I was five and a half, we had a chance to settle here because at that point was diagnosed with glaucoma. So, with that you need to go to the doctor every couple of weeks depending on how your pressure is, and at that time it was pretty bad. So we were able to get a Visa, and eventually a green card and so forth. So ever since then I’ve been here, and it’s been awesome.
Jeff:
That’s cool. Where’d you come from, then?
Tanja:
Serbia originally.
Jeff:
Oh wow, my neighbor came from a refugee camp.
Tanja:
Oh!
Jeff:
Through his sister who made it over here, and then he’s been here for 20-some years or whatever, probably longer than that now, 25 years or so
Tanja:
Yeah, that’s about right, that’s crazy. I mean, we left right at the beginning of the war so we count ourselves lucky in that sense
Jeff:
Yeah, that was Serbia and-
Tanja:
Bosnia, yeah. Herzegovina.
Jeff:
I suppose you just reference back to there and hear the stories and probably from your parents too, huh?
Tanja:
Yeah, I mean, we weren’t really involved in the conflict ourselves. My family wasn’t involved in it, but we certainly hear stories from other people and we were affected in the sense that they had food shortages, they would turn off the water, the electricity, for days, you know, the money was very unstable, currency changed multiple times a day. So, and then of course, as we know with the pandemic now, we experienced the whole empty shelves issue, yeah. So I never thought that would happen here, I mean obviously it’s not because of a war, it’s because of a pandemic. Some of it was similar, the whole panic thing, people freaking out over not knowing they’re gonna be able to buy bread or what have you the next day, so.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, it’s amazing how fast things changed, and sometimes-
Tanja:
I know!
Jeff:
-how long it sustains in some areas, and that never may go back, you know,
Tanja:
I don’t think it’s quite going to be the same.
Jeff:
No, it’s not. I think things are going to be hybrid in a different sense. I think a lot of countries we’re going to look at stability to manufacture some of their stuff readily at home, at least a percentage of it. It makes sense to be capable of manufacturing, instead of reliant upon something that might be extortionate to go get the way we’ve been doing it.
Tanja:
Exactly. I think that is a good thing. It’ll kind of go back to that World War II era of internal production that everyone did because they had to. It’s too bad that we outsourced so much of it, but I hope that one of the good things that comes out of it is not only more companies going remote where folks don’t have that terrible commute, and for our community, the blindness community especially, that is our biggest challenge I think, is transportation. Reliable, punctual transportation that we can use to get to our job, and we can’t just on the fly say oh, we’re gonna go, I don’t know, to this interview, we have to plan for it. So having more things remote would certainly help in that department, and the internal production, more countries creating things on their own, I think, is going to increase jobs anyway. Hopefully those things come out of it.
Jeff:
Definitely. So how’d you get into doing audio?
Tanja:
Purely by accident. Since I was a kid I always kind of was fascinated with acting and listening to stories and creating characters, things like that, so when I was 10 I got a tape player, for I think it was Christmas or my birthday or something like that, and some blank tapes, just the standard like 80s low bit rate tapes, and I started recording myself, my family. You know, I can’t see actual pictures-pictures or video for that matter, so none of that did much for me. My method of recording fun moments or parties or what have you, has always been audio recording them, like, almost like a field recorder, and asking people what they think and if they’re having fun. My family eventually got used to it, they were kind of annoyed by it at first, but, you know, got them trained. So, I did a lot of stories. One thing my TVI recommended back when I was in elementary school was to practice my braille speed by reading into my recorder, and then listening to myself and just to hear what I sound like and what I can improve on, so I did that too. I recorded classes, so you get the idea. And then when I was in high school, I went to my local library to grab A Tale of Two Citiesfor school, I found what I thought was the audio book, and I got Pet Cemetery as well at the time, by Stephen King, who’s one of my favorite authors. I love horror fiction, and loved all of his books back at the time, came home, put it in my, I think it was the NLS player, started listening and it turns out it was all audio drama, done by the BBC. So that got me hooked, since I hadn’t been exposed to a lot of audio described media at the time, and I was excited to hear a medium that I didn’t need any additional help or sighted assistance with. I could just sit there, get immersed in the story, and understand what was happening through the sound effects, actors, etc. And it was a full cast and I like, thought to myself, this is cool. Let me listen to as much as I can, and also these actors aren’t physically acting, they don’t have to make eye contact to do the right facial expressions, body language, and meet their mark. So, this medium would be amazing to get into. And then I did my research and listened to a lot of independent audio drama. At first I found BBC content that I just consumed, you know, I found it on YouTube, I found it on the Radio4 website, etc, and then I had friends that had copies and we started sharing it amongst ourselves. Then I found the audio drama community online through podcasting. At the time it was just called audio plays, radio drama, it was really before podcasting took off, so there was a website called Audio Drama Talk, and another one called Voice Acting Alliance, which has since been retired and is now a Facebook group, and started posting my- or not posting, I created an account, bought a terrible line-in compressor microphone from Radio Shack, at the time, and I used that to start auditioning for various people’s fan-dub projects, original works, and improved over time, so it’s kind of where that came from.
Jeff:
And now today you’ve been involved in audio dramas for quite some time.
Tanja:
Yeah, I’ve been involved in audio drama for over 10 years, with having been part of my radio station at Simmons, when I was in college, undergrad, I did a lot of the editing for their PSAs, promos, or recorded promos for them and did some shows, and then had my own podcast, Lightning Bolt Theater of the Mind, which is still going, started creating my own audio drama content and networking with as many people as possible, and then was involved in people’s shows, whoever needed a voice I would always offer, and then I cold email and reach out to people all the time and just say, I found your podcast, I love your show, here’s why I love it. By the way, I’m a voice actress if you need voices, let me know, happy to jump in, keep on, you know you’re doing a great job. Thanks so much for putting this out there. And really, a lot of podcasters want feedback. They don’t get a lot of feedback, and I know this myself because most people are happy to take the time to write a positive review on something, it’s a little more effort for most people, or maybe they mean to, they have the best of intentions, but they don’t quite get around to it, because they’re so busy.
Jeff:
In your email you said I like your work, that went a long ways, just those few words, that goes a long way.
Tanja:
It does. I know, I know how that feels. It’s nice to get specific feedback.
Jeff:
Yeah it does
Tanja:
Kind of helps.
Jeff:
Kinda, yeah, just a few words, just a few words of acknowledgement of the work that goes into it. So you know what the work is, can you say the name of your podcast again?
Tanja:
Sure, it’s Lightning Bolt Theater of the Mind, and the link is lightningbolt.podbean.com So, l-i-g-h-t-n-i-n-g-b-o-l-t. p-o-d-b-e-a-n as in nancy, .com.
Jeff:
Oh great, and everybody, you can find that in the show notes as well, and Tanja, could you give us a little brief on Lightning Bolt Theater of the Mind?
Tanja:
Yeah, it’s an anthology really, of series and one-shot pieces that span the gamut of romance, supernatural, horror, maybe more holiday-themed shows, fantasy, everything and anything. Some of them are serious, some of them are, like I said, one-show hits I suppose.
Jeff:
So you do this on your own or do you collaborate, do you have a team?
Tanja:
Myself and my co-producer Josh Price, we’re really really good friends.
[transition noise]
Audio Drama 1:
But she couldn’t have-
Audio Drama 2:
My beautiful girl-
Audio Drama 3:
I think I need to know what exactly is expected of me.
Audio Drama 4:
What did she do to you?
Audio Drama 5:
I’m not a dog.
Audio Drama 6:
Damianna!
Audio Drama 7:
Please, Kevin!
Audio Drama 8:
I dwell in darkness. I’ve made it my home.
Josh:
This has been a Lightning Bolt Theater of the Mind production.
Tanja:
He’s one of my best friends, and he helps me a lot with the mixing, especially nowadays since I’m kind of busy. A lot of the times I get so busy and I don’t finish something on a timeline that I mean to finish it, but we run the show without having a set schedule just because that kind of works for us, and people listen to it when it drops in their feeds, but there is no real, “here is when the next episode is going to come out.” But right now we have a lot more content, so it’s every month we’re uploading new things to the website, but he helps me a lot with that, he writes stuff and then I do mixing, writing as well. I’ve helped behind the scenes with a lot of the audio effects, where if I’m really busy, I don’t have time to mix the whole show, I’ll put some filters over certain characters. The villains or, you know, if it’s a thought versus the person speaking out loud, I’ll do those kind of effects, and then both of us plan the shows together, we cast people and do some remote directing a lot of the time, just give them notes and script, and it’s a lot of fun.
Jeff:
It sounds like it!
Tanja:
Of course, you know, we do favors for our friends who are in the voice acting community and they do the same for us. They ask us to voice act so it’s like a nice exchange of skills on all sides. It’s very positive.
Jeff:
You have a demo on your website, and I listened to it, and you switch accents here and there and sometimes it’s flat, there’s no accents.
[transition noise]
Tanja 1:
And you can help me by staying quiet.
Tanja 2:
Nasty old coot. If it wouldn’t get me into trouble I’d march right back in there and dump this roast beef and gravy on his head. That’d warm him up.
Tanja 3:
Get in here, right now! Nothing happened, Mendez. Nothing happened at all!
Tanja 4:
Well Digger, looks like we’re on our own against four, no, wait, five murderous timber wolves ay
Tanja 5:
Sir, you asked for me?
Tanja 6:
I want you to take me somewhere. And not a word to anyone about our destination, is that understood?
Jeff:
But what makes you change the sounds? Is it for the different clients, or where the voice is going to be used that determines that?
Tanja:
Yeah, that’s a great question. So the reason I have different accent samples in my demo is just to show range, that I can do those accents, and then folks can request other samples, maybe they’ll have a script of their own they want me to record before they commit, but yeah, a lot of audio dramas- for example, I work with Graphic Audio. Have you heard of them?
Jeff:
I have heard of that lately.
Tanja:
Yeah, they’re great. They’ve been around for several years, and as you know they do full-cast audio drama like audio books. They’re solid. But I was a huge fan of theirs, and then I saw a post on a Facebook group that they were looking for more voice actors. I was like, oh, I’m just going to give it a shot, let’s see what happens. And it worked out really well, but that ties into the question you had where they wanted me to create different samples with different accents, since they need voice actors to play diverse roles, you know, characters from everywhere and anywhere, and I sat down with the director on Discord, they directed me through these various scenes and scripts they had, and I recorded different dialects, and then they created files after I sent those in, they compiled them and created almost like mini demo reels for every dialect, uploaded it to a database where they can go and pull anything they need for each character. Basically, directors can go and take a listen, and pick the voice they want for the character.
Jeff:
Oh yeah, I’ve heard of something like that for people that read books, that they have samples and there’s agents out there that sample through these and pick and choose. It’s kind of an advertisement for your voice.
Tanja:
Yeah, the ACX project does that, where when you create an account as a narrator, you can post as many samples as you’d like, and authors looking for someone to narrate their book can find you, or when you audition for someone’s book they can go into your account and listen to all of your various samples and understand a little bit more about your range and then commit or not, and Fiver does that too. A lot of places, you know, plug and play websites like voices.com, voices123, all of those have options for you to upload your samples.
Jeff:
it seems like lately voice acting has really grown, just over the last few years.
Tanja:
It’s been around for a long time, I think it’s just sort of becoming more popular and more in the forefront of advertising, I guess, because it’s remote. A lot of it is remote, it’s kind of rare nowadays that you go into a studio.
Jeff:
I think one of the things, I’ve listened to a podcast, I don’t remember which one it was, it’s about voiceover artists but they’re saying it’s kind of saturated because everyone thinks they can do it remote but they used to do it all in studios, but they get home and now they want to get the equipment and all that, and when- are we going to go back to a normal, so it’s kind of interesting that there’s an influx of everyone thinking that they can just do it from home, but it does take some quality equipment to achieve your goal.
Tanja:
It does. I think there’s a place for everyone though, even if you’re just starting out in voiceover, there are places in the industry where you can fit in. I mean, that’s the beautiful thing in my mind about it, is there is no cutthroat competition, no pushing anyone out and trying to take their job. There’s room for everybody, because there’s so much content always being created. Like say there’s a company that can’t afford to pay a union voice actor that charges by the minute or the hour or the word, they can’t afford that, they just don’t have the budget. They can take someone who’s starting out or who is non-union, freelancing, or has beginner equipment like Audio Technica 2020 or something, that person can record an I-learning series and get paid, say, $50 for it. Whereas, if they wanted to hire someone seasoned they would charge at least probably $500, depending on how long that script is and how revisions and pickups and things.
Jeff:
So is- I know you said that it’s not cutthroat, but is this where the battle is right now between what companies want for quality? Is there a big measuring stick for where they draw the line, we won’t do anything for under 500 because we want quality, is there that type of competition?
Tanja:
I mean, it all depends on the voice actor and where they are with their business, and a lot of them do this for a living, and they’re a lot more specific about what jobs they’ll take on and who they’ll work with just because it’s their own business, they’re working many hours a day to try to get the paperwork done, the marketing, the actual recording and editing and/or working with directors in sessions, so if they spend two hours working on a project and they only get $100 it’s not worth their time, based on all the other responsibilities they have. So, it depends on where they’re at in their career. If someone is just starting out and they want as much practice as possible, they’re willing to put a lot more time for less money. And then companies, again, if it’s an established company and they have a standard, some of them will say, for example, audio-wise, I’ve done some audio description work with them, they have a standard and will say if you have a lower quality microphone, it’s okay, we’ll work with you, but it’s likely you’re going to get maybe certain roles or less robust speaking roles, for example, whereas our standard is the Sennheiser microphone because it’s very high quality, the pickup pattern is small, so background noise, anything coming from the sides won’t be saturating the sound, and it’s a great microphone used for dialogue, so that just gives you an idea, but they have a standard, Graphic Audio has a standard of how they record, what they expect you to submit, all of these companies, and maybe versus a college student who’s starting out, who can pay someone 30 bucks to record a voiceover for their YouTube video, can pay them 30 bucks and they’re not too picky about the standards.
Jeff:
Sennheiser, what model are you using?
Tanja:
I’m using a Sennheiser MKH 416 mic, and I have other options too. I have a Bluebird and a Warm Audio microphone.
Jeff:
Oh wow, the 4-16 Shotgun microphone, that’s legendary, that’s not a cheap microphone.
Tanja:
Pricey, it’s like close to 1000, but I bought it on VO Gear Exchange for- it was gently used, I bought it for like 500, or no, 750.
Jeff:
So that’s a shotgun condenser, that’s got quite the focus.
Tanja:
Yeah, the pickup pattern is very small. You can’t move off to the side very much because your voice will fall off.
Jeff:
Explain your studio to us, give us an audio description of it.
Tanja:
Sure. So I got this booth, it’s 4×4 from QC Acoustics, and the website is customvocalbooth.com. They build similar to the whisper room model kind of style booths, except a lot cheaper. So we’re talking, mine for example was 4000, but what it looks like is, it’s a square, it has a door that is I believe fiberglass door, it’s thick, I would say the door is maybe three to four inches thick, and the walls are similar. They’re like, maybe four inches thick. If I’m remembering this correctly, it eliminates 67 decibels of noise, I would have to check the specs, but basically it eliminates high mid frequencies, low frequencies, if they’re extremely low they might come through like a helicopter or something, or a rumble, but it’s not too, too bad and you can always use like a high pass filter to get rid of it if you had to. There is a floor to the booth so it doesn’t sit on your actual floor. Again, same thickness as the other walls. It has felt, the felt almost feels like pool table felt. It sits over wood, like 2x4s, and there is insulation between the wood, the inner and outer walls, and then the floor, it’s not floating, but it does give you a barrier between your floor, and the floor you are standing on when you’re inside the booth. I’ve put foam, all on the walls, on the door, because if you don’t it sounds very boxy, it almost sounds like you’re in a coffin or something. There’s a strange echo and reflections, because of the smooth surfaces, so the foam has little triangles and it breaks up the sound waves, so that you don’t have standing sound waves and resonance, all kinds of weird frequencies in your recording. And then I have bass traps, which are larger pieces of foam that are triangular shaped, and they sit in the corners of my booth, and again, get rid of some standing frequencies. I have pillows behind my microphone, which is currently sitting on a shelf that’s been placed from one side to the other of the back wall, and I have a blanket, almost acting as another sound barrier. On top of that shelving unit, and then a mousepad sits under my phone, which is sitting on a round black metal stand. It’s a desktop stand, I don’t use a scissor boom arm or anything. And then under that I have like an Amazon Basics chair that I use, it’s very small because the space in the studio is very very limited, doesn’t allow for a lot of motion, and then I use a silicone keyboard that makes absolutely no sound. So I had to do a lot of research to find it, but surprisingly enough, the keyboard itself is cheap as dirt, it’s $18, it’s a wired USB keyboard, and it’s designed for restaurants, hospitals, etc, to be able to literally unplug it and wash it. So, the actuator keys are not exposed in any way there are no holes between the keys or any of this kind of thing, no switches, it’s silent, so when I’m reading my scripts, I can use my down arrow, up arrow keys, and it doesn’t get picked up by the microphone. And then the pop filter I have is just a standard, almost feels like a sock, pop filter, very basic. I also have a Steadman, but I find that my cheaper one works better. Surprisingly enough.
Jeff:
So when you’re using your computer to read your script, your headphones have got to be soft enough so that your microphones don’t pick it up through the headphones.
Tanja:
Exactly. I think these are audio, or they might be Sennheiser headphones. I honestly don’t remember, I bought them years ago. They go over my ears, I turn the volume of the JAWS loud enough to where if I have to raise my voice I can still understand what I’m hearing, and then, say I’m on a call with the director or right now for example, with you, I have my Apple headphones under my headset that I use when I’m recording anyway, and that kind of gets rid of any bleed through, of your audio.
Jeff:
Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, I get that once in a while when I’m reading a script, or some notes that I have, every once a while when I’m editing and I’m paused for a second I hear that [muffled garbled noise]. Just a little bit, you know? But then you start talking but usually by the end no one can decipher that out of there, if you have music on or something. That’s really neat, I think audio dramas have had a resurgence lately, I’ve been hearing more and more of them and I was excited when I saw that article, and you were in that article and that’s how I got a hold of you. It’s-
Tanja:
Oh, which article was it, out of curiosity?
Jeff:
Oh geez.
Tanja:
I don’t want to put you on the spot.
Jeff:
I’ll find it and send you the link to it.
Tanja:
Alright! Have you heard of Storymore out of curiosity?
Jeff:
No. Oh wait, that could be the article!
Tanja:
Okay, so this might interest you, because- so I’m part of their talent pool, but the point being that they’re a startup, and they’ve been around for a little while but they’re securing funding right now. The pandemic slowed it down a little bit but they’re getting back up there, and what they’re doing is they’re going to launch a Google Play app as well as an iOS app in June, specifically June 12, and they’ll have us beta test it before then of course to work anything out. What it’s going to be is a Netflix for audio drama content, so there’s going to be a free tier, and then a subscription-based tier where they’ll expect subscribers to pay 6.99 a month, almost like a Netflix subscription, and you would get access to their original content that Storymore creates, curated content from partners that they’ve added to their to their roster who are sharing royalties, and also content that they’ve licensed outside producers to create for Storymore as well, and then the free tier will have previews of episodes. Say for example there’s an original Storymore production that’s going to run two seasons, and each season is 10 episodes, maybe they’ll give you three episodes for free, and then if you want to hear more, you can subscribe and get access to the full catalogue, but basically they’re looking for as many people to check them out as possible. I’m spreading the word because they’ve asked all of us to help with outreach efforts however we can. And also you had mentioned audio drama and that you were listening to it, so this is a great place, all in one stop to kind of get that content in one place and stream it.
Jeff:
You know, you mentioned it early on when you first came across audio drama that it did something that other things didn’t do, I mean I can listen to a book with audio description, or I mean, a movie with audio description, or I can hear, you know, someone has an mp3 of a TV show that’s described and that’s how they listen to it. And I always said, you know, you can read the book, you can see the movie, you can see the audio described, I think they’re three different areas, but when you got the theatrical type of audio drama, I mean it goes back to Orson Welles, War of the Worlds.Creating those foleys, the sounds, everything like you said, when you’re talking about special effects I’m going, oh okay she gets it, you know, all this stuff that goes into creating the situation without having to describe it, that you get it, because it’s built right in. It’s a whole ‘nother shelf at the candy store, you know, this is, it’s stuff that I’m starting to like really, I’m really aiming for it, and when I saw your article that drew me in, and I’ll send you the link to that article-
Tanja:
Please, thank you.
Jeff:
Yeah, it was- and I’m thinking it’s something new that’s coming out, it was saying that it hasn’t been released yet, it’s next month, could be the Storymore.
Tanja:
Oh, it could be, was it- out of curiosity, did the article mention the historical fiction audio drama taking place-
Jeff:
Yeah!
Tanja:
Oh yeah, that is Storymore, yeah. Small world. Cool.
Jeff:
My comprehensive skills need a little bit of work on it, but I did get your name and I put your name into Google search and I started finding all this stuff on you, and I was excited when you responded because it was like, wow, it’s her, this audio person that does this stuff.
Tanja:
This person that’s saturating my Google searches. Wow, that’s always funny, because like when I once in a while Google myself just, it’s one of those good practices to do to make sure there’s nothing out there that you’re like, hmm, this shouldn’t be there, or, you know, where did this come from, but I just find these random things, I’m like oh wow, it’s just kind of funny, but I am super excited to have met you too though because I’ve listened to the podcast.
Jeff:
Oh, wow. It’s a neat world, and audio is something that got me, you know, when I lost my sight, I got rid of all my stuff, because I didn’t think I could use it and then someone told me about podcasts back in 2013 or something like that and I said, wait, wait, I just sold all my stuff except for my microphone. And it was like- but, you know, it was like really neat to explore the voice and the good sounds and I’d like doing, like, different characters and stuff, and some people like it, some people don’t. Depending on what they came to listen to and they find little more than expected, but it was always, it’s fun to create these situations where- and audio drama is what it’s all about, you know the crackling of the foley stuff, you know, I see these shows where they take celery, and they crack it like bones breaking, that’s for your horror tonight, when you said, like you’re in a coffin, I said oh, she does like Stephen King.
Tanja:
Yeah, so I have a morbid sense of- a more of a dry sense of humor, that’s kind of my thing.
Jeff:
Pet cemetery brings me back to- someone told me to do something that you wouldn’t normally do, and right down the street, there was a small theater and it’s playing Stephen King, I said, I would never go see a Stephen King movie. It’s not something- so I went and saw Pet cemetery and oh my gosh, it was like, crazy.
Tanja:
Did you see the new one or the 1990 one?
Jeff:
1990, yeah.
Tanja:
Well, I will say that one was better than the new one, don’t even waste your time with the new one.
Jeff:
I wouldn’t even think about seeing it again. There’s, yeah, I could see back then and they cut the Achilles tendon. Oh, man. Or the kid and the shoes, that truck goes by, disturbing.
Tanja:
Yeah.
Jeff:
But he has a way of grabbing you, doesn’t he, just, boom. Yeah.
Tanja:
Oh yeah.
Jeff:
I don’t know, I wonder what his nightmares are like.
Tanja:
I wouldn’t want to be stuck in there.
Jeff:
That’s a whole audio drama right there, stuck in Stephen King’s nightmare.
Tanja:
Yeah, exactly. It would be way more epic than the Dark Tower series that disappointed me at the end, a lot. But that’s, we’re not gonna go there because I don’t want to spoil it for anybody.
Jeff:
There you go. You know, you reminded me of when I was small, and my cousin was over, we had a tape recorder and we would put those cassettes in there and then we would pretend, we did the Colgate commercial, or you know, “four out of five doctors,” you know, do stuff like that and we’re just having fun with it, and he passed away but it’s still one of those memories of recording, you know, you hear stuff, you know, and not that, you know, we like hearing our voice but once you do start listening to your voice like you had someone ask you, your TVI told you, listen to it, improve upon it, look where it’s gotten you today. Did you ever imagine, I mean, you fell in love with audio dramas, did you ever imagine you’d be participating, and here you are?
Tanja:
No. I always thought like, at first when I started listening to them, I’m like, these are so good, I would love to be involved, but I don’t think I’m that great at it, like I’m not sure my skill is there, and then also I don’t know if you’ve felt this, had this same experience, but when you’re really excited to work with someone and right before you reach out to them you’re like, oh, I hope I can work with them, you kind of think, I don’t know if they’re willing to- not make accommodations necessarily, people definitely are very accommodating. But are they willing to be patient enough to kind of work with me through some of these challenges that I have to figure out a way around, or adapt in some slight way to make the process work for me as well? And you’d be surprised at how many people are amazing about that, and don’t see it as an issue. So I guess I had a lot of time, initially, when I was starting out, where I was sort of worried that maybe I shouldn’t be reaching out because my confidence wasn’t that great and I was like no one’s gonna want to put up with all of these things, maybe I mess up 50 times and I have to practice the line a bunch and then get it to the point where it needs to be. But one thing that actually helped me improve my confidence was the fact that a lot of these auditions, you could just record it by yourself. You didn’t have anyone listening to you. And when you’re just getting started, that really is huge. You can mess up 50 times and then just send them the good takes.
Jeff:
Yep, before I got ahold of you today, I was doing this piece, just a little section that I’m going to put into a podcast, and I had to read some stuff because there’s stuff I had to get right, and so I had my notes and stuff like that. And when I was listening to it I could take out the gaps, you know, I could bring it together, or rerecord a certain section. But even though, no matter how much you hone it down, there’s that spot, that one transition from one word to another that you think, ah, you know, is anybody really going to hear that or am I just-
Tanja:
Being critical.
Jeff:
Being me, and so yeah, you’ve got to kind of let it go sometime. So, from the recorder, all the way to where you are today. Those days seem so long ago, but it’s been quite a journey for you, I’m sure, through, you know, getting your education, and the drive that you have, I mean, not only did you end up and all sudden wake up one day and say, oh wow, I’m here I’m doing this now, how’d that happen, but you must have had a drive, it seems like you’re very well-organized and you know how things work and how connections work with everybody else. Can you describe your journey a little bit through that?
Tanja:
Sure! As all of us in general have to adapt to situations, and that kind of is what it means to be human, is to be adaptable and overcome challenges. I think a lot of us, specifically speaking about visual impairment, not to harp on it of course, but we go through the educational system, whether it’s a public school or a private school or a school for the blind. My experience was public school. So, back then it was always basically having to prove to the general ed teachers, the administration, the special ed department, that I needed certain things. They tried to say you have a little bit of vision, you have enough usable vision, you can struggle with print and limp along, you know, use your video magnifier, your CCTV, and you’ll be fine. I insisted that- or my parents as well of course, I wasn’t able to advocate at a young age, but they insisted that braille was absolutely imperative, especially because my vision was going to deteriorate over time, and honestly, it’s not as much of a hard work and a process of straining my eyes all the time. It’s a little bit faster, etc. So, from having to fight with the school on these various details to getting technology and all of it, sort of my whole life, feeling like I need to prove that, not that I’m as good as everybody else but just that I can do whatever it is that I’m doing, and I have a desire to do it well, because there’s the saying if you’re going to do something, do it well, don’t just put half your effort in. That was kind of what drove me. Also my dad was a perfectionist, and say if I got a 95% on a test, he would be furious. I’d get told off for, well, you know, a long time about that and he didn’t accept low grades or performance that wasn’t showing effort or maximum effort, that kind of stayed with me a little bit, but for the audio drama, it really also comes from, that all aside, being included and accepted and welcomed. Generally, with other areas of my life, sometimes in school, with trying to make friends, it was very difficult for me to do that in high school, college, middle school, it runs the gamut. It’s always been a challenge in terms of feeling like I fit in, completely, and maybe putting in a lot of effort, it seemed like at the time, so I kind of gave up on it a little bit there, and I said all right, I’m gonna listen to my audio books, I love my audio dramas. I love these fictional worlds that I can escape into, so that’s what became my focus once all my homework, and everything was done, and then in college I started meeting friends and joining some of these other groups and things. And then, of course, my friend Josh and I met after college when I was doing audio drama already, and had the podcast kind of going, and he joined on and he’s also visually impaired, and I sort of was able to give him that support that sometimes I wish I had had from a friend, going through public school and such, but at the time, he had recently lost his vision because of retinitis pigmentosa, and was in upstate New York, so in an area that doesn’t have a lot of other blind people to share any kind of experiences, didn’t have a lot of resources, so it was really kind of cool to be able to give that support, but that’s a little bit of a side tangent. To answer the question in a more succinct way I guess, I can say that it comes from a drive to succeed, the love of the medium itself, audio drama, voice acting, the fact that my dream of acting had finally come to be true and it was an amazing experience, and the fact that I had so many supportive folks around me that are on the same journey, but also want to help everyone improve and make the best creative product that they can.
Jeff:
Wow, that’s awesome. That scene that you have on your website, in the hospital, where the beep, beep, and then you have that conversation. It’s really cool. I mean, you’re dying, you’re accepting death or giving up on life.
Tanja:
Yeah.
Jeff:
And you can just feel it as you’re going along.
[beeping noise]
Tanja:
I am accepting this.
Man:
Don’t say that. Don’t you say that. Why the hell would you say that?
Tanja:
‘Cause I’m tired of living. Do you know what it feels like to constantly be in pain? I know folks think that if you hurt enough your mind will just get used to it, and you control your hurting, it’s not as bad. But what about feeling the same level of pain, as if 100 needles were pricking your heart, all at separate times? Pain medicine means nothing, except that 100 needles maybe becomes 90 of ‘em. Pain management. What is that anyway? I’ve tried to manage the pain, the pain of my best friend, giving away what I thought we had, to another woman. The pain of never knowing a child of mine, in the flesh, except by passing my own baby in my own bathroom. We’re gonna have to send you home to miscarry, they said. What the hell is that? I would have 100 heart attacks to avoid the pain I’ve had to deal with. I am done, Bart. So tired of pain. Death must be better than this. If you were Jesus himself, I wouldn’t ask you for a miracle. I want to go be with my babies. I love you, but I don’t feel love. Can you change that? Please. Don’t try.
Jeff:
Now I want to break that down a little bit. Were you listening to the other voice, or were you doing your whole part and then someone put them together, how was that staged?
Tanja:
That’s a great question. I’ll say, again, plug for Storymore because that is their production Helen and the Heart. Basically, how that came to be was I saw in a group called Audio Drama Auditions, on Facebook, I saw a casting call for Storymore specifically Helen and the Heart, they had a PDF there of the script. And that was exactly the script that you heard my take on, I recorded the audition, and sent it in and kind of, it was one of those things where I was like oh, I hope this is okay, send it in and pretend I didn’t send it, you know, to myself and wait and see what happened. Then I got a call back from them and they were super excited and so basically they used my audition to create the scene, and Micah Thomas, who is the CEO, played Bart the husband. So he recorded it on his own and matched it to my performance, and then the sound designers did their magic and made it all work.
Jeff:
I was wondering if he went after you or if you went before him, and I smiled when you said that he did it after you. Just one of those things as- did you ever get distracted when you’re listening to something that you almost miss the story because you’re listening to all the structure, the how it all went together or the different dynamics, the sound effects or the weather, everything.
Tanja:
Yes, all the time, especially because I’ve had to do pickups before, so especially when I’m listening to an audio book, and I hear someone- their voice changes or their proximity effect on their microphone changes, you can hear that they’re closer to their mic, I’m just like retake!
Jeff:
Yeah.
Tanja:
I do it all the time, or sound effects, I’ll say, oh, that’s from the BBC sound effects library, oh, that’s from the Hollywood edge sound effects library.
Jeff:
Oh yeah. You know, I made my own sound effect for this one thing, and I heard another podcaster use it.
Tanja:
Wow, really?
Jeff:
Yeah, it was like, okay, was that, no, that’s me. I know that’s mine; you know.
Tanja:
That’s awesome! Did you get a credit?
Jeff:
Oh no, no, but it didn’t really matter because we were all just playing, you know, we’re all just having fun and making stuff, and doing stuff like that, but yeah, someone told me, I forget where it was, they said that now that you’ve had this up- it was Juan Alcazar. He said- he went to movie production school, I think it has a different name than that, but he went to study all that stuff and then he has RP so he’s losing his eyesight so he kind of gave up, but he does some YouTube stuff and he says the instructor told him that you will never watch another movie the way you’ve watched it before, because of what he’ll be looking for, what he’ll be noticing, all those little things. I noticed I have to do my edits, if I record in the morning, I have to wait the next day to do it, so I can match my voice in the morning, if I was very low that day.
Tanja:
Makes sense, yeah. You know, I use that trick sometimes when I’m recording characters, especially if it’s not something that I have to work with the director on. Like, I’ll say, okay, so this character is very upset in the scene. I’ll sometimes even wait till I’m very upset in my real life, and I’ll go and say all right, you know what, I’m already upset, this day is not going well, I’m going to record the scene now.
Jeff:
Oof. So, were you in a good mood when you came on to do this podcast?
Tanja:
Oh absolutely! Yeah, I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m bouncing off the walls right now.
Jeff:
You didn’t slam your fingers in the drawer first and then get on, like, when you call to complain about something? That’s what was suggested to me, slam your finger in the drawer, then get on the phone and complain about something.
Tanja:
Ouch.
Jeff:
Yeah. So what’s your range of characters? I mean, do you have, like, all the way from cartoon anime to serious?
Tanja:
That’s a great question. I don’t think that I would be very good at anime, I’ve never tried it to be honest, but I’m always happy playing serious characters that have a large backstory and the more character development there is, the more fun for me it is to play the character, but then again, even if I’m playing a minor role that’s comedic, or say it’s an operator, like a 911 operator, or someone serving, like a waitress. I’ll try to come up with at least a little bit of a backstory or what motivates this character today, maybe I’ll put a little bit of an irritated spin, even if the director didn’t specify that sometimes. But I like playing authority kind of characters, authority roles, military type, law enforcement. Artificial intelligence is one that I got to play recently for Vast Horizon, Fool and Scholar Productions, but it was so much fun. I think I spent years, just because I listen to a screen reader, as you do, all the time I was- do you do this with your friends where you guys will imitate screen reader voices?
Jeff:
Yeah, like when it’s super fast some, like [fast screen reader noise].
Tanja:
Exactly, yeah, or like even imitating Siri or Alexa, I do that all the time. Sorry if I set anybody’s off. But I got that role as the artificial intelligence for the ship, and that was a lot of fun, just getting that- well, the AI becomes more and more sentient as time goes on. So getting that balance right is an amazing challenge and I loved it, of sounding artificial and having certain words always sound the same, but slowly putting emotion into it. So that kind of character, I’ve played a lot of characters that die off, just because of the screams and the reaction noises, and I get a lot of roles where the director wants minute reaction sounds, like video game type things where you’re combat you’re, etc. Does that answer your question?
Jeff:
Well, I hear all that in your demo because I hit play, okay, on my computer, and I have my Siri devices, two speakers off to the side here, and you started out doing a smart device sound, and my head was turning like where, what, what did she do? Because you were doing almost like Siri.
Tanja:
Yeah, it was like a car voice or something? Like “turn left.”
Jeff:
Yeah, turn left, but you went on into, like you said, you do the technical stuff or the computer generated voices or something, and then all sudden you just started switching your accent, I think there was like a more of a German sound or European sound, and I was just like, oh, it’s her, this is her.
Tanja (robotic voice):
Due to a high number of calls, we are unable to route your call at this time. Please try again later.
Jeff:
You know, when you get the chance, usually when you do a podcast, you never met the person before and all of a sudden I get to hear her voice, here she is.
Tanja (robotic voice):
Leaving compound, entering Acre Lee Boulevard.
Jeff:
And I was thinking, she’s Siri, she’s Alexa, she’s- I just set off everyone’s voice to-
Tanja:
Oops. A-Lady!
Jeff:
Yep, A-Lady.
Tanja:
As the Dot to Dot podcaster says.
Jeff:
There you go. Robin.
Tanja:
Woo-hoo! I’ve never met him, but he’s awesome too.
Jeff:
Yeah. Dot to dot.
Tanja (accent):
Dot to dot. A new skill every day, in five minutes.
Jeff:
Perfect! You’re hired.
Tanja:
Yay! [British accent] China called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council. [Russian accent] Pandemonium at the UN as recriminations go back and forth between the world’s superpowers.
Jeff:
Here’s a quick question, do you practice before you start speaking?
Tanja:
Not really. Like, do you mean the vocal exercises, where you just do the [blows raspberry] thing.
Jeff:
Oh, yeah, I’ve heard some of them. Some people just go through the little tongue twisters or something, yeah.
Tanja:
Yeah, no, I don’t do a lot of that, I should do more of it, and then there’s of course the stretching you can do to relax your chest muscles-
Jeff:
Tongue push-ups.
Tanja:
-your neck. Yeah, I don’t do any of that stuff. I should, but.
Jeff:
Yeah, I just walk in and see where it’s going.
Tanja:
Same. Yeah, I drink water, and then kind of listen to it after and do some editing. I love the noise gate feature, it’s a beautiful effect, like if I’m editing something or I notice there’s breath noise, I’ll use a noise gate to kind of get rid of that between when I’m speaking, between dialogue or what have you, words, and then I guess the low-pass filter could be used if there’s rumbling in the background, my fridge is running, and it’s somehow getting through the booth, then that would help with that for sure.
Jeff:
I used to be one of these people that, oh, I used to me. I didn’t like using too many effects, it’s like if you record something, if you can record it raw and get it, that’s the best, you know? I’ve seen some stuff that’s overproduced and stuff that’s underproduced, I guess, but it’s like people always ask when you record, what’s the best microphone? I said well, the best microphone is the one in your hand, the one you got right now if you don’t have anything. I mean, you know that as from a kid, it didn’t matter, you were just getting content. So I gotta ask a question, now that you mentioned noise reduction, are you using Isotope.
Tanja:
Actually I’m old school still, I use Goldwave, I love it, been using it for years, and the new version has- they keep adding more and more effects, but what I like about it specifically is I can set, everything is accessible. So if you’re using JAWS, NVDA, Voiceover, whatever, doesn’t matter, everything is labelled, the manual even has a dedicated section for screen reader users, which I find amazing, it makes me happy. When I want to adjust, let’s say I’m using a noise gate, and the default is minus 30, I believe decibels, that’s the threshold. There are other, obviously, parts of that preset, but I don’t mess with any of that, like the attack, the release, all of that. I just go to the threshold itself, what it’s listening for, and cutting under that noise level, and I’ll change it to minus 40 or minus 45, depending on what works best. I’ll play with the numbers, and all of that works perfectly fine, they’re just text boxes you can literally type into and change the numbers. And it’s simple, it’s easy to learn, there’s an iOS version, which I haven’t tried yet, but nice little program, so I use that for very very basic.
Jeff:
That’s right, they just brought it to the iOS. I always find editing on the phone, because you’ve gotta move these markers-
Tanja:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
-it’s tedious.
Tanja:
I think you’d need a bluetooth full-sized keyboard to really make that work.
Jeff:
Or if you can grab it with that and just move it incrementally.
Tanja:
Yeah, just use your brackets.
Jeff:
So you’re not the one-take wonder.
Tanja:
Me? No. I do as many takes as I think- if I’m sending it to a director, somebody else mixing it, a lot of people just want three takes, so I’ll do that, but if I’m really critical, like when I’m sending an audition I’m super critical of myself, I’ll do a couple more than that and then cut, slice and dice something together, and send the Frankenstein take.
Jeff:
Mm-hm, yeah. Part one from section three and part three from part two.
Tanja:
Exactly.
Jeff:
Slide it together. That’s the fun part of editing, and with Goldwave it’s affordable, so anybody that’s interested in getting involved in editing a little bit, they could get Goldwave and give it a shot. Like I said, I would suggest-
Tanja:
50 bucks!
Jeff:
-not trying it on the phone at first, you’ll get frustrated, but you know, if you’ve got a PC- I don’t think, Goldwave, they don’t make it for the Mac, do they?
[buzzer noise]
Tanja:
I don’t think so?
[bell noise]
Tanja:
But don’t quote me on that.
[transition noise]
Screen reader voice:
Goldwave online ordering is fast, easy, and secure. A license is emailed shortly after the transaction completes. Lifetime Goldwave license: $59.00. Button. Bullet license never expires. Bullet free upgrades. Bullet works with all versions of Goldwave. Bullet includes Windows, iOS, and Android. One year Goldwave license: $19.00. Button. Bullet license expires one year after purchase date. Bullet software returns to evaluation mode after one year. Bullet upgrades are free for one year. Bullet includes Windows Star, iOS, and Android.
[transition noise]
Jeff:
I know some people that use it, and it uses a lot of easy commands, like the 1-2-2-4, or the F keys.
Tanja:
Uh-huh. Pausing, fast-forwarding.
Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. Just to dig in a little deeper, interface or mixer?
Tanja:
Ah, yes. I use the Focus Right Scarlet 2I2 interface, and the only difference between that and the Solo is that it has inputs for two microphones. You can plug in two XLR inputs, so it’s a metal box and it’s a pre-amp, what it does is it boosts the signal of my microphone to the point where it can be heard. There isn’t a lot of floor noise, like not a lot of hiss, because what it is is kind of like a sound card that attaches via USB to my computer, and so my microphone isn’t using the computer’s default sound card, and the quality’s a lot higher. And then the other thing it allows me to do is listen to myself as I speak into the microphone, there is zero latency, no delay, and I’m able to monitor. I can also adjust the microphone gain if I’m screaming or dying or something, I can lower the gain all the way to the bottom and the microphone won’t click, so the audio will sound clean. It’s great.
Jeff:
Listen to this Stephen King. Either I’m screaming or dying, not any other-
Tanja:
Yes, a lot of roles. Death roles.
Jeff:
Well Tanja, I know you said it before, but it bears repeating. Give the listeners your website again, and how they can get ahold of you.
Tanja:
Yeah, so it’s Lightning Bolt Theater of the Mind, and can be found at www.lightningbolttheater.podbean.com. And then my website is www.tanjamvoice.com. That’s www.t-a-n-j-a-m as in mary voice.com.
Jeff:
Well, Tanja, thank you so much for sharing all your experiences and your journey through audio and growing up, everything, it’s just great to hear from you, hear your voice, and it’s that person that I heard on the demos, it was like wow, it didn’t sound real, it didn’t sound- it sounded real but it was like, you’re good. You’re really good. I really enjoyed it.
Tanja:
Thank you so much, Jeff, it’s such a pleasure to be here, and I look forward to having you come onto my podcast as well as introducing you to some more folks in the voice acting community as well.
Jeff:
Well, thank you, I’ll take advantage of that invitation, and when you’re on a podcast, instead of sending cold emails you just ask them right out front, there you go.
Tanja:
Exactly!
Jeff:
I like your go-getter attitude, I like your drive, I like all that stuff, you know? There’s so many listeners out there that are looking for stuff in podcasts, what do they get out of it, you know? Either they get a little tip or trick or something on a gidget or gadget or something like that, but when you can hear someone’s drive and passion, you get to feel it, but just by listening to you, it’s like you’ve got things connected, you’re moving forward, you’ve got an agenda, you’ve got a goal, you know, from your childhood to where you are today. You’re driven, and I like that, that’s what I always ask about students when I was teaching is if someone comes in that has a drive, they’re so easy to teach, because you can give them the tips, the tools, a little bit of advice, and you see them take that and move forward, so you’re a good inspiration, and a good role model for so many people, and I’m glad to have you on the podcast.
Tanja:
Thank you, I’m so happy to be here, and if anyone has any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out, and I’ll be happy to answer them as best I can, or if anyone wants resources or wants to know how to get into voice acting, don’t be afraid, just jump in! We’d love to have you.
Jeff:
There you go. Had a great time talking to Tanja, and afterwards we talked for another hour about, you know, what else, audio, audio dramas, sound, and you know, it’s just a great time talking to someone that’s so willing to share everything that they’ve been doing and even opening up the door to you for opportunities to do what they’re doing, and you can just tell the passion that is behind what she’s doing, so really someone to really connect up with, and we put some links in the show notes so be sure to click on those links, check it out, and if you’re interested in audio dramas, there’s more stuff coming, there’s more stuff coming. Stay tuned. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store. That’s two words, Blind Abilities. And if you have any questions, want to give us some feedback, or just want to chat, give us a call at 612-367-6093. That’s 612-367-6093. I want to thank you for listening, hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
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[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
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