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Advocacy in Action: Stories of Persistence and Change
This episode of Blind Abilities highlights the inspiring journeys of three individuals—Judy Sanders, Janet Dickelman, and Ben Zheng—who exemplify advocacy in action. Judy recounts her pioneering efforts to challenge discriminatory policies in education and airline seating. Janet reflects on self-advocacy from her school days and her leadership within the American Council of the Blind, emphasizing the power of persistence. Ben shares his transformative journey from sudden blindness to becoming a leader in the Minnesota Association of Blind Students, focusing on self-determination and collective advocacy. Together, they showcase the strength of grassroots advocacy and its role in building a more inclusive world.
Here are some links from this episode:
American Council of the Blind of Minnesota Call: 612) 223-5543
National Federation of the Blind of Minnesota Call: 612-872-9363
Minnesota Association of Blind Students email
To find out more about the services provided at State Services for the Blind, and what they can do for you, contact Shane DeSantis at shane.desantis@state.mn.us or call Shane at 651-385-5205.
Full Transcript
Jeff: Three stories on advocacy.
Judy: I got arrested for sitting in a seat in an airline. I was not by the emergency window, but I was in the aisle.
Jeff: Three unique journeys.
Ben: Some outstanding advocacy that I’ve done includes putting those skills I learned at MCB to use when I got to my first semester at the University of Minnesota.
Jeff: Three people who have and are helping create a more accessible world for us all.
Janet: We talked about how I would work getting books and how we’d do testing and that type of thing, and it all fell into place. But if I had not pushed to go to this meeting, it never would have happened.
Jeff: Welcome to Blind abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today we’re going to hear from three unique people with very unique journeys into advocacy. You meet Janet Dickelman, Judy Sanders and Ben Zheng, a director, a teacher and a college graduate talking about advocacy. And to kick it off, here’s Judy Sanders. Judy, welcome to Blind Abilities.
Judy: Thank you. I’m pleased to be here.
Jeff: Thanks for taking the time to come on to blind abilities. Judy, why don’t you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and how you got started in advocacy?
Judy: I’m Judy Sanders and I am totally blind, which is why advocacy is important to me. But I didn’t always know that it was. So I got started way back in 1970. Which is, you know, longer than most people who are listening to this ever thought existed. I sold myself short for many years. I didn’t give myself enough credit or kept from doing things that the only reason I didn’t do them was I had decided it might not be possible. And somewhere along the way I figured out, you know, I could be doing things that I’ve never done before. And I knew that I wanted to be a teacher. And so that’s where it started. That’s where I knew that, because where I was living in Denver, Colorado, the school district where I hoped to try to get a job said that, I mean, had written policy that if you didn’t have 20, 40 vision in the better eye after correction, you could not be hired because you would not pass their physical. So that’s when I started learning about advocacy, and I learned that you can’t be an advocate all by yourself and probably be very successful at it.
Jeff: Judy, when you talk about going it alone or advocating with a group of people, how did that change the trajectory of you getting a job?
Judy: Well, I was doing student teaching, and that’s when I learned about the policies of Denver Public Schools. And at first I thought about it and I thought, I’m going to do such a good job with student teaching that they’re going to want to hire me. And at the same time that I was doing the student teaching, I also started the interview process for a job, and I began to understand that it had nothing to do with how well I did my job, because they would say, you know, we have a policy about this, and I don’t really know what it is, but there’s nothing I can do about it. Which, of course, was his way of saying, I do know what the policy is, and I’m not going to do anything about it because and to his honesty, he probably couldn’t have changed it if he wanted to, but I don’t think he’d want it to very much. So I asked him who could change the policy, and he said it probably the school board. At the same time that I was thinking about all of this, I received an invitation from the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado to attend a student seminar. The other blind students were also invited and they were feeding us dinner. So I thought, you know, if they’re having dinner, I’m going. I have no idea why I want to go and what I’ll get out of it, but I’ll get dinner.
Jeff: Yeah.
Judy: And in the process, I started meeting people. A lot of people I didn’t know, and I was interested in what they were doing, but I wasn’t sure what I would do about it. And then I started telling them about wanting to be a teacher, and I said that I heard that they had this policy and they said, you know, we’d like to help you with that. Just let us know if you want us to. So I started thinking about it, and I thought, they have meetings and I’ve really never thought of going, but it probably wouldn’t be right to go to their meetings without accepting their help. You know, if I, if I go to their meetings, It’ll be better if I accept their help. So that’s where it started. And I kept pursuing it with the district not getting anywhere. And at the same time, the NFB started making inquiries on behalf of all blind teachers, and they weren’t getting any answers either. So the next thing that they did was to hold a conference of blind teachers in Denver, and they brought teachers from other states who were currently employed. And they had this session all about how blind people can teach. And they invited Denver public School administrators to come. And to their credit, they did.
But they did say they thought it was different in Denver. And so we were discussing it, I remember, and saying, why would it be different to teach in Denver? We decided it must be the altitude.
Jeff: Yeah.
Judy: we couldn’t think of anything else. So then the NFB started writing to other districts where they had employed blind teachers and asking them what they thought. Then they shared all this information with the school district, still got no reaction, and now we were just being ignored. They weren’t even politely telling us, that’s nice. Finally, I got a call from the national president of the NFB, Doctor Kenneth Jernigan, at the time, and he said to me, we would like to take legal action. We’ve we’ve done all we can to try to persuade them. So we’d like to take legal action against the school district, but we could only do it if we have a teacher as an example of the problem. Are you willing to be that teacher? And I said I sure would be willing. And by that time I was getting to know more about the NFB, and I also was going to go to a national convention. Actually, I guess I’d been to a national convention before. And one of the things that I began to learn that I know I can teach in a classroom, I’ve student teaching, but there are things that I wasn’t doing as a blind person that I should have done, like using a white cane.
I had had instructions from teachers along the way and they all said, what a nice job I did with doing it. But then after the lesson was over, I would put the cane away and walk with other people. And I never went by myself. And nobody ever said to me, where do you think you’re going without that cane? They just assumed that they would have to take me around forever, and they would have if I hadn’t started meeting other blind people. And when I decided to go to this convention, I knew I had to take a cane because they weren’t going to drag me around. Well, they might have, but they would have talked about me. So I went to conventions. I started using my cane, and there were other things too. I learned how to cook. I learned more about doing things that I hadn’t bothered to deal with before this, and they were good examples to me. Even the people that I met who were not professionals, you know, they didn’t have professional jobs. A lot of them at that time worked in sheltered workshops for the blind, but they were doing all those things that I wasn’t doing. So that’s how I learned. And eventually the NFB filed a lawsuit, and the school district, after a couple of years, decided they would settle it, and they changed their policy.
And I went to work as a substitute teacher. So that’s how it all got started. And this was in 1970, and I’ve been a part of the National Federation of the blind since that time. I’ve lived In a few different states, and I ended up in Minnesota because I was offered a job by the NFB of Minnesota to be director of educational programs. It was a temporary job, but we don’t have that job anymore. But it was because of advocacy done in Minnesota with what was then the Minneapolis Society for the blind. The NFB sued them because they were not paying good wages to blind people. And it was another different advocate problem. And after they solved that problem, they decided they wanted me to be hired to try to clear up some of the more positive aspects of being blind that we hadn’t seen yet. And so we were doing lots of things. We were educating school kids about what blind people can do. We talk to employers. We published a newsletter that we sent out to the public, and it was an interesting time. Then I was doing a lot more traveling for the NFB and on my own. And the more I traveled, the more I learned that we were discriminated against by the airlines.
They would make us move out of our seats on an airplane if they thought we would be in danger on a plane. And some of us said, we’re not moving. You can’t not let us have this seat. And I got arrested for sitting in a seat in an airline. I was not by the emergency window, but I was in the aisle. So they took me off the plane and they said they were pressing charges against me for disorderly person. That was how they said it. They didn’t say you are a disorderly person. They just said you are disorderly person. And eventually they, well, they arrested me, but then I didn’t go to jail or anything like that. I was in an office at the airport, and they let me out on my own recognizance. And a few months later, the matter came to court. And then the judge decided he would drop the charges. And that’s how it ended. And a little while after that, like a few months, a couple of other Federationists in Minnesota were arrested for sitting in an emergency exit, and they were taken to jail again. They were bailed out, but and eventually they were found not guilty. So we’ve we’ve had our exciting times. But that’s how I got started. And I have had other experiences where we’ve, you know, made changes and life goes on.
Jeff: So that was NFB President Jernigan that you called when you got arrested.
Judy: Yes. He was the one I called.
Jeff: Did he say oh you again.
Judy: Well fortunately it had been about it had been several years so he didn’t. Otherwise he might have for most disabilities they wouldn’t know. They have no way of knowing whether you’re sitting there. Are you going to be able to open the exit door? So they didn’t know. And the problem was they were just assuming that I wasn’t even by the window when they arrested me. I was on the aisle seat. And that was in the 1980s. Since that time, they have been more verbal about what it is you have to be able to do to sit there. So it’s a little bit better. I still might challenge it if I ever got caught there, but it doesn’t happen to people as much as it used to.
Jeff: Judy, what about today? What kind of advocacy do you see happening out there today?
Judy: Well, a lot of it now has. We still have some of the same problems. And we still, for instance, know that we’re turned down for a particular job because they don’t tell us it. They’re more careful about that. But, you know, by the questions that they ask you and the polite way that they tell you the interview is over, what it is. It’s just harder to prove a lot of times. And sometimes it’s not that, you know, sometimes they have a good reason not to choose us. Or maybe, maybe it’s not a good reason. Maybe they didn’t like the sound of voice. You know, those things can happen to anybody. But I think a new emphasis that we have in the National Federation of the blind and probably other places, too. It has to do with accessibility. Can I compete on an equal basis with other teachers? Because will I be able to read everything that they give me, or am I going to be able to know that I can go where I want to go when I have to get there. Those kinds of things. There are a lot of tools now that blind people can use to get around and to use GPS, and much more than I even know. I am not a real techie person, but I have friends in the National Federation of the blind who are, and I can call them up and say, I can’t do this. What can I do? Or can you fix this for me? It’s broken again.
Jeff: Yeah.
Judy: So it helps to have friends?
Jeff: Yeah, friends. And the support of an entire organization to help fight for what you’re fighting for. And to let you know why they’re not fighting for something as well.
Judy: Exactly. If you attend meetings and conventions, you learn a lot about what you didn’t know you could do if you only had known. It’s an awakening.
Jeff: I like that awakening. It’s so true. And the stuff you learn during the resolutions. You know, there’s some stances that are being made, but every once in a while, there’s something that comes along new that you just turn your head and go, hmm. Oh, and people dig in.
Judy: I’m constantly learning, and I know I’m constantly teaching too, because I’ve been around a long time, but I’ll never know it all. And things change, you know, and we make them change. That’s the beauty of it. Individually, I know we have our successes, but then we’re not necessarily sharing it, and somebody else has to go through a lot of trouble that if they don’t, they maybe could have avoided it.
Jeff: I think one thing that everyone knows about is, or a little bit about is the ADA, and that was a big one.
Judy: The ADA was a big one. And actually one of the things that the Federation did, the ADA, when they first were putting it together, they were saying all the things that had to happen, like, you know, they had to have barriers for this. And we made sure that some of the things that they said, if we didn’t want that requirement for ourselves, that we shouldn’t be obligated to use it. That also is in the ADA, and it’s because of our advocacy on that, not just what are you going to give us, but what if we don’t want that accommodation?
Jeff: Judy, what advice would you have about advocacy for a high school student or college student and even someone who doesn’t belong to an organization?
Judy: Well, one of the things I would do if I knew that and I knew they were blind and they’re not in an organization, I would talk to them about it. You know, you might like to meet other blind people, not just who you run into in the street, you know, because we’re a team and we can work together and we can share what we know. And you have a lot to share, too, maybe. And sometimes I know I’m doing something with a blind person, and they tell me later, you know, you were the first one I ever went shopping with or something like that. I never thought about going by myself and I am doing it with another blind person. So there’s lots of things and we have an effect and we don’t even know it sometimes.
Jeff: Wow. That’s quite a change from the days when you wouldn’t even use your cane or go out.
Judy: Oh, yes.
Jeff: To the point where now you’re helping people gain their independence.
Judy: Exactly. I would urge people who are listening to this and they’re thinking, I wonder how she does this. And the truth is, I might not know if you’re not connected, if you’re listening to this and you’re not connected with an organization, call us. We can talk to you, and then you can make up your own mind about whether you want to be connected.
Jeff: I remember my first convention back in 2005, and in the general sessions, you sit in the Minnesota section, and I remember people coming up to me. There was Steve Jacobson talking about He knew me from a listserv and I was like, wow, I guess I just dated myself there. And Dick Davis came up to me and started talking about woodworking, and he talked about meeting people in the street. I remember one time, while I was cited of seeing a blind person with a cane going down the street, and I just stopped and paused for a minute and thought about it. And then when I came into the blindness world, I met my first counselor, and I asked them, where do they keep the blind?
Judy: Yeah.
Jeff: I mean, I was quite naive when I asked that question.
Judy: Yeah. So if you want, I can give a phone number. I don’t know who your audience is. It doesn’t matter.
Jeff: I guess I’d say anyone that listens, whether they’re newly blind. Ben. Blind teachers of the blind.
Judy: Ok, and you don’t know whether they’re blind or not. Might be parents, too. Or it might be someone who just was curious. Yeah. The phone number you can dial is Six three. That’s the NFB of Minnesota’s phone number.
Jeff: Oh, great. I’ll put that in the show notes as well.
Judy: Okay.
Jeff: Well, thank you, Judy, so much for coming on to blind abilities and talking about advocacy and a little bit about your journey through it.
Judy: Thank you for having me.
Jeff: And now we’ll hear from Janet Dickelman. Today in the studio we have Janet Dickelman, and she’s the president of the American Council of the Blind of Minnesota. Janet, thanks for being on blind abilities.
Janet: Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate this opportunity.
Jeff: Yeah, and I was excited that you came on because we’re going to be talking a little bit about advocacy, but we all got there somehow. Why don’t you tell the listeners about who you are and how did you first step into advocacy work?
Janet: All right, I certainly will. I was born blind. I’ve been blind all my life. No light perception, nothing. Totally, totally blind. My first brush with advocacy, I like to say, was when I was in ninth grade, and at the time I was going to school, there were two options for children who are blind visually impaired, either going to the State School for the blind, which my parents really didn’t want me to go to because it was about four hours from our home, and they wanted me to, you know, be around a little more than that and or being mainstreamed, which was great, except at that point, mainstreaming meant that there was a one school in a school district that had a braille resource room and braille resource teacher, and they funneled in children from several different districts. Well, that worked great through my first eight years of school, and that was fine. But as I got a little older, it was a little hard because the school was about a half hour from home. So my school friends I didn’t really get to see after school, and my neighborhood friends I didn’t get to go to school with. So by the time I started my sophomore year of high school, I really wanted to go to school in my own district, and my parents had been working with the school and talking to them, and the school had concerns and doubts and nothing happened. Nothing happened, nothing happened.
Finally, a couple of days after the beginning of the school year, my parents had a meeting with the Superintendent of schools and I begged them to let me come with them. I think there was some pleading, probably some tears, probably some gnashing of teeth and, you know, whatever. But I did get my way. And that at that time, you know, kids didn’t go to meetings at the school. That just was kind of unheard of. But I begged and my parents finally relented and let me come to the meeting. So I was talking to the principal and the superintendent, and they were asking me questions. And then the superintendent said, well, I want to take you on a tour of the school. I said, okay. So we walked around the school and he introduced me to a few teachers, and I’m thinking, okay, what’s this all about? And then as we were walking back to his office, he said, okay, today’s Thursday. So how about you start here on Monday? So it was a simple as my talking to the people at the school, them getting to know who I was and to realize that this wasn’t going to be that difficult. And we talked about how I would work getting books and how we’d do testing and that type of thing, and it all fell into place. But if I had not pushed to go to this meeting, it never would have happened.
Jeff: You must have been really determined.
Janet: I guess I was.
Jeff: What was that that drove you? Where did you get your drive for that?
Janet: I just wanted to be where I wanted to be. And I felt like I needed to be in school with all the neighborhood kids because I was missing out. And God knows, I don’t want to be one to miss out on anything. So I just felt it was important for me, and I was very fortunate that it worked out and have some to this day. Lifelong friends from when I went to high school in my hometown.
Jeff: That experience and success of utilizing your self-advocacy probably was a great tool to have for your college days.
Janet: It did. Going through college, figuring out, you know, talking to teachers in advance to find out what books they were going to be using, reaching out to then, you know, recordings for the blind. My aunt and uncle had a neighbor who worked at a prison in Michigan, and they were teaching the prisoners Braille. So I got some of my books in Braille from the prison in Jackson, Michigan. And I got, you know, a lot of books recorded from recordings for the blind and other sources, as you know, many other people did. But just having to learn how to do this all for myself, rather than having it presented to me through the Braille resource room at the school that I was mainstreamed in. And I was very glad that I did it. And then college, same kind of thing, you know, trying to get readers putting ads out for people to see if they were interested in reading or making arrangements to have tests. I think the hardest part for me was getting tests done, because having the Braille resource room, as I was going through elementary school, everything was pretty much brailed up for me. Well, now I didn’t have that opportunity, so I had to get someone to read test questions to me. So that was a whole different thing. But to me it was worth it.
Jeff: You’re making me flash back to my college days a little bit there when you had to pretty much get things. It’s before they really had BARD.
Janet: Oh, there was no BARD. There was nothing. There was no. You know, I go back to there was no internet. You know, it was a long time ago. There wasn’t a disability services person at the school, as a lot of the schools colleges have now, you had to be your own disability services person.
Jeff: Yeah. And now they have full fledged offices at some places.
Janet: Yep. Which is wonderful. I’m so glad that they do. But it was people like you and I who pioneered for that. And that to me is advocacy. I mean, I have gone many times to state and federal offices and talk to Senator staffers and talked to, you know, different people about different areas that needed to be worked. But to me, it starts with the grassroots. And you have to start with yourself. And if you don’t do it for yourself, then nobody else is going to do it for you. I remember when I first started walking around with a guide dog and I live in a neighborhood that has some pretty busy streets, and I wanted some audible pedestrian signals in the neighborhood. And I know there’s a lot of pros and cons to apps. A lot of people think you should be able to listen for the traffic. And yes, that’s true, you should. But I always say if a sighted person watches the traffic but can also see that little hand on the traffic signal counting down, and I want that same ability because it’s available and the technology is here. So having to work to get apps in my neighborhood and doing a lot of calling, and a couple of times having someone from the city come over and I’d say, okay, this light’s not working. This is not right. This is you need to change this. And, you know, really, really working. And they probably got pretty tired of me, if I must say. But you really sometimes have to be very persistent.
Jeff: Well, hopefully they got tired of the light’s not working.
Janet: Yes, yes, hopefully they did.
Jeff: Because you were working.
Janet: I was working. I knew how they should be working. Yeah. And those things to me are advocacy. And I know that ACB on a national level, we’ve done so much advocacy for things like audio description. And what a difference that makes when you can go to a movie or when you can watch something on TV, you know what’s going on. You don’t have to ask somebody because there’s a lot of stuff you miss.
Jeff: Yeah. My grandkids come over right now and they say, can you turn this off? Because they’re watching cartoons and they’re describing the cartoons. And I thought, oh, wow, cartoons are being described.
Janet: Yeah I know. Isn’t that amazing? I mean, I didn’t really like cartoons when I was growing up because I had no idea what was going on.
Jeff: It just sounded like a symphony music.
Janet: Yeah, just a bunch of noise. Yeah. And very little dialogue. So. Yeah. But now. Yes. So much is audio described and things like the Rose Bowl Parade and the Macy’s Day Parade now are an audio description.
Jeff: Museums.
Janet: Museums getting a lot of audio description. Live theater going to Chanhassen to see White Christmas in audio description tomorrow.
Jeff: Actually, that was a big push. The audio description part. I remember that that was probably all back in the 2000.
Janet: Yes. I remember sitting talking to representatives in DC and, you know, talking about how the importance of audio description, the inclusion, inclusion, and it’s also the emergency when you have audio description, then you get the emergency things that scroll across the screen that you may not know about.
Jeff: And when you hear your county, it’s like, oh yes.
Janet: Then you know, oh, I got to be careful.
Jeff: Yeah. Turn on the radio.
Janet: Yeah. There’s something going on here that I need to be aware of. The other thing that ACB has been working with is accessible currency. That’s been a big effort that we have worked on for years and years. And I believe now we are finally getting to the point that it I have heard that the next bill that comes out is going to have some kind of tactile feature. I don’t know what yet. I don’t have a date. I’ve heard years, but I don’t have anything confirmed, so I don’t really want to speak on something I don’t have total information on, but I believe it is coming and it’s long overdue. Even though we have things now, you know, the money identifiers that you can get through the Bureau of Engraving and also the many people you know on your phones, you can verify a bill, but it’s still you’re not included if you can’t read the bill.
Jeff: Right. I believe there’s other countries that have it. I mean, Canada has a little bit.
Janet: oh, every every other country does. Yeah, yeah. Canadian money’s different sizes. Money in Mexico, money in euros. They’re all different. So we are really woefully lagging behind in that area. Oh yeah.
Jeff: England. There are different sizes.
Janet: Yep.
Jeff: Yeah. What was it like for you to go in and talk to people while you’re advocating, like at the Capitol? How receptive were they to you and how did that feel after you got done visiting there?
Janet: Normally you speak, especially when you do this in DC, you speak to a staffer who has some familiarity, maybe with a bill that you’re trying to advocate for. In some cases. In some cases not. I have had meetings where you’ve gone into the office and, you know, sat down and they’ve talked to you. I’ve had meetings where they meet you out in the hallway because there’s several things going on at the same time, even though you’ve made appointments with them. But I believe it makes a difference. I believe that it gives a staffer that the feeling that these people really are serious and, you know, they have some valid points. And I have seen a lot of our advocacy efforts have, you know, eventually come to fruition. It’s not something that happens immediately if you’re advocating for something big, the wheels of government wheels. And I can say this because I’m a former government employee, but they move very, very slowly. And, you know, you might be advocating for the same bill. You might go to D.C. every year for several years and you’re thinking, oh, this is the same one we were advocating for last year. This. Oh, yeah, we did this three years ago, but eventually, generally, things come to fruition. It just takes a while.
Jeff: Yeah, I’ve noticed it takes so long that you got to be willing to actually advocate for something that you yourself may not even benefit from.
Janet: Yes.
Jeff: Like your time at college is done, but you still know what it was like, especially for you when you had to pretty much piece together your own program of advocacy.
Janet: Yes.
Jeff: To get your books on time. Get your Braille. That was the.
Janet: : Tapes, get my test. Get whatever I needed.
Jeff: Yes, tapes. Get your 36 tapes per book.
Janet: Yes. And dragging around those big reel to reel tape recorders.
Jeff: Hmmm. And the Perkins.
Janet: And the Perkins. I yes I carried my Perkins through all grade school and into high school always and several braille books.
Jeff: And now students…
Janet: Have computers, have laptops, iPads. Yes. Yeah. When I think how different going to school would have been, I’m sitting at my desk here with my Braille sense sitting right next to me when I think how different school would have been with that. It’s just amazing.
Jeff: Yeah, I had a computer on a cart, a CCTV on a cart. So these two carts would be wheeled up into this room. I had my own area in the classroom.
Janet: I bet you did. You needed.
Jeff: Yeah. I mean, that was one phase of it. There’s so many phases that you go through. And then trying to go to the library to get a second copy so they can cut the book up and scan it.
Janet: Yeah, and they didn’t even have that when I was in college. So you were a couple steps ahead of me.
Jeff: Oh, yeah. Well, that was my experience. It was. Yeah. But if you didn’t do it, you didn’t get it.
Janet: Nope. That’s right.
Jeff: So today, someone who’s, you know, we basically just said it’s so much easier today.
Janet: But yeah, we had to walk to school for six miles in the snow and cold.
Jeff: Uphill both ways.
Janet: Yeah, uphill both ways. Yep. That’s right.
Jeff: Yeah. But today you see the landscape of today and advocacy. What advice would you have for someone today who’s coming into this world of vision loss.
Janet: Don’t accept. You can’t do this. Don’t accept. No. Be kind. When you ask for things, you’re much better off if you go in. I feel and are reasonable. You may not get everything you want immediately. It takes time, but you need to ask for what you need because otherwise nobody else is going to do it. And you’re the only one who knows what your particular needs are. Your needs may be way different than mine. So that’s my advocacy at a grassroots level is so individual.
Jeff: Yeah. I had a quote, Jim Justison and told me he said, it’s hard work, but it’s work worth doing.
Janet: Yes, I like that. I think that’s very appropriate. Kind of sums it up.
Jeff: And the American Council of the blind has a conference coming up here in Minnesota.
Janet: We do. Our state convention is January 24th through the 26th. We’re going to have a virtual presence, but we’re going to be physically at the country and in Suites and Woodberry for those two days, and we have a lot of fun sessions we’ll be hearing from. Of course, being that it’s a state convention, we always like to hear from our state people. We’ll hear from state services for the blind. We’ll hear from the library. We’ll hear from Minnesota State Academy. And then we have some other fun panels. We have a panel with some members locally and some members from a distance who came here as children from different countries. And they’re going to talk about their lives as blind children or young adults coming into this country. Oh, wow. We are also having a session on fashion, basically fashion do’s and don’ts and how to make sure that you are looking good. We have an exhibit hall with about. I think we have 12 exhibitors coming in person. We will have on the Thursday night before the convention for people who are registered. We will have all the exhibitors will come on to zoom and talk about what they’re having at their exhibit booth. We are also having on January 19th as part of our convention, we’re having a virtual auction. So we’ve got a lot going on, and we’ll have our banquet Saturday evening. And our keynote speaker will be ECB’s national CEO. Executive director, I should say, is his title. So he will be speaking to us in person. So that’ll be fun having him visit us. And Friday evening. Our entertainment is a improv group that’s coming to perform for us. So that’s going to be very fun. We’ll throw out questions or scenarios. I guess they’ll ask a few questions of us, and then they’ll come up with little scenarios and skits. So that should be really fun. And convention is $75 in person and that includes free meals. Oh wow. And virtually it’s 25.
Jeff: Well that’s great.
Janet: If you’re interested, go to ACB minnesota.org and everything’s on our website if you’re interested in our national convention, which I have to talk about shamelessly because I’m the national convention coordinator, and that will be in Dallas in July. And all that information is located at ACB convention.org.
Jeff: Well that’s great. I’ll put a link to those all in the show notes as well.
Janet: please., oh, wonderful. Thank you.
Jeff: Well, Janet, thank you so much for coming on to blind abilities and talking about advocacy work.
Janet: Oh, this was fun.
Jeff: Yeah.
Janet: Thanks for having me, Jeff, I appreciate it.
Jeff: And to round it out, here’s Ben Zheng.
Today in the studio we have Ben Zheng and he’s a college graduate ready to start taking his LSATs. He’s an advocate and he’s currently the Minnesota Association of Blind Students president. So glad to have you here, Ben. Welcome to Blind Abilities.
Ben: Yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Ben Zheng, and I just graduated the University of Minnesota with a bachelor’s degree in psychology, a business management minor and entrepreneurship minor.
Jeff: Congratulations. That’s quite the achievement. Tell us a little more about Ben.
Ben: I was pretty much cited all my life, up until three days before my senior year started in high school, so I was about to be 18. Three days before senior year started, I went blind. We won’t go into the minutia of how that was, but let’s just say things happen when a 45 mile car hits a human body, which is unnatural. So I woke up in the hospital after a 14 day coma. I’d gone from about £185 at roughly 1,314% body fat, down to maybe £8,085.
Jeff: Wow, I can’t imagine.
Ben: And I had to essentially relearn how to live my life. I’d lost a lot of my independence because all I’ve ever known is how to live with sight. While I was in the hospital, once I had started grappling with the idea of being permanently blind. I came up with the methodology I’ve always followed, which is I can’t control what happens to me, but I can control how I choose to react. So I wasn’t able to address all of the blindness issues that I was facing at the time, but I had bigger issues to deal with. Before I can deal with the blindness issues, I have to relearn how to properly walk. Have to rehabilitate my body and rehabilitate my mind and brain. So it’s an iterative process. I did what I could each day and that built on to the next week, what I did next week, built on to the next month. And slowly but surely I improved. I graduated high school on time in May of 2020 with the love and support of my friends and family, and went on to go to Blind Inc., formerly Blind, Inc., now known as the Minnesota Center for the blind, and got much of my exposure and knowledge through that experience.
Jeff: Now, your time through finishing your senior year must have been pretty difficult. But then when you went to a training center such as Blind Incorporated, as it formerly known as, that was all brand new to you. Learning techniques, anything and everything and being around other people who are blind. What was that experience like?
Ben: It was very eye opening. I’m a very driven person and I had promised myself in the hospital, regardless if any blind person before me had done it, I would go on to achieve what I wanted to do. But thankfully I didn’t need to blaze that trail on my own. The methodologies and techniques and alternative skills already existed out there, and it was all conglomerated at the former Blind, Inc., now known as Minnesota Center for the blind. I was actually trying to decide if I wanted to withhold accepting my diploma and go to MSAB or go to blind, Inc., now known as MCB. But my SSB counselor at the time, Shane, really encouraged me to accept my diploma and go to blind Inc. he just really thought it would benefit me a lot and really fit more with my goals of trying to attend college with as little time in between high school and college as possible, and seeing all these blind role models and them independently living and just doing things I thought I wouldn’t be able to do again, just kind of unlocked something inside of me. It’s not that I couldn’t do it, it’s that I just didn’t know how yet. And once that was lifted, we’ll use my home management class as an example. I’ve been cooking for the better part of most of my life. I’ve started cooking since maybe I was 4 or 5 since my parents owned a Chinese restaurant. So I’ve always been around the culinary world, and I just was afraid to start cooking again because I just didn’t know how you would go about doing it. Truth of the matter is, it’s pretty unremarkably similar to doing it with sight, and once I was encouraged to do so, it just was muscle memory. At a certain point, I didn’t have to think about cooking blind, I just cooked. There is no blind or sighted cooking. There’s just cooking. And there might be difference in techniques, but cooking is cooking.
Jeff: That’s awesome that you were able to gain that perspective and experience. Other blind and low vision role models at blind incorporated, MCB, to help, as you said, unlock that something in you to realize that you too could do things that you thought you would never be able to do. I’m guessing that’s probably the start of your self-determination, your self-advocacy?
Ben: I’ve always advocated for myself in my life because my parents were busy running their Chinese restaurant, so a lot of the time it was kind of up to me to figure things out. You know, I’m a first generation kid. I’m the first kid of immigrants. They moved to the country when they were towards their adult life. So it’s a custom, like a practice that makes it difficult for them to kind of interact with the American world. So a lot of these things, it was up to me to figure out. I think a lot of my self-advocacy started due to that. And after I had gone blind, I had the foundation of advocacy down. But there were some more blindness specific minutia attached to the specific kind of advocacy. So when I got to blind, Inc., now known as MCB, we have a weekly seminar in which I was introduced to a lot of positive blindness philosophy and many of the advocacy skills that I would need to go on to use. After I had graduated Minnesota Center for the blind, I attended my first semester at university with. I wouldn’t say all my skills were perfect, but I would say they were decent enough. But practicing them and being forced to use them really improved. Not only my MacBook voiceover skills, travel skills, but also my advocacy. I had to really fight for the accommodations I needed and really express how to best address access barriers at the university. So in the fall of 2022, I was asked to come attend the National Federation of the Blind of Minnesota’s state convention in Bloomington. And I did, and someone nominated me to become the first vice president of the Minnesota Association of Blind Students. I accepted, and while I was voted in and became the first vice president, and that really got me more involved with the Minnesota affiliate of the NFB and a lot of their advocacy initiatives, such as the day at the Capitol, and got me more involved with the student division now that I was the first vice president. So that is how I got my start in advocacy.
Jeff: I like that you make advocacy seem like a transferable skill, which obviously it has been for you. Can you give us some examples or what advocacy events stick out in your mind?
Ben: I think some outstanding advocacy that I’ve done includes putting those skills I learned at MCB to use when I got to my first semester at the University of Minnesota. I wasn’t great at all the self-advocacy parts, but slowly, semester by semester, I think I slowly improved at advocating for what I wanted and needed. I think the idea of asking for more than you actually need is a slippery slope, but I think I could have done a better job of asking for less, but asking for more than what I needed. I slowly began to chip away and use only the accommodations I actually needed. I’ve participated at one day at the Capitol with the state affiliate of the NFB here in Minnesota, and we advocated for the phasing out of certificates awarded through section 14 C of the Fair Labor Act, which allows employers to have these certificates to pay individuals with disabilities less than the federal minimum wage. We also advocated for the civil rights of parents with disabilities in terms of unfairly being dismissed in custody, disputes. Adoption of children or parenting time. And I think we had some pretty good results. That was a collaborative effort on the Minnesota Association of Blind Students level. We formed our Equal Access Committee, which its purpose is intended to help address access related issues in education across Minnesota. And we plan on helping address those issues on a as needed basis. First, we’d like to hear what the potential access related issue is. We will conduct our due diligence, and then we will make a plan on how to address it.
Jeff: I like that how you covered self-advocacy as an individual and then more statewide Advocacy as a group, as a collective, and then as a niche group of Minnesota’s Association of Blind Students. Can you tell us more about what is the Minnesota Association of Blind Students?
Ben: Minnesota Association of Blind Students is a proud division of the Minnesota affiliate of the NFB. We are a community of blind students that support each other, and we connect our students with different useful resources put on academic as well as career related enrichment activities. We fund our students to attend enrichment activities such as regional seminars, and we’re just a community of students that like to support each other. In the past, Minneapolis has put on different activities for our students to attend, such as the Strike a Connection Bowling Bash, the Christmas Hot Chocolate White Elephant Gift Exchange, the MnNabb’s employment Seminar, and many other kinds of activities. One of our more recent initiatives is the Thriving Without Sight webinar.
Jeff: How can people find out more about the webinars and get involved.
Ben: We are currently in the process of restructuring our website, so once we have that updated, there will be a reoccurring zoom link available at the current moment that is not completely finished. So if you would like to join and participate in our Thriving Without Sight webinar, it happens every month on the second Sunday from 6 to 8 p.m. and if you would like to join that, please shoot an email to students at NFB org and I will provide that zoom link for you. In the month of January. Our plan is to have a webinar on scholarships. We will have a general discussion on scholarships, what kind of opportunities are available, and then there will be two presentations, one for the Minnesota affiliate of the Nfb’s scholarships and one for the national scholarship provided through the NFB. We’ll have a person that has served on the scholarship committee for the Minnesota affiliate, and a person that has served on the scholarship committee for the national NFB scholarship. So there’ll be a lot of very useful information. And if you have any questions, I’m sure they’ll be happy to answer it for you.
Jeff: How can people find out more about MnAbs? Minnesota’s Association of Blind Students.
Ben: Yeah, so you want to find out more, connect with us. We have a WhatsApp community that is under development. We have our Minnesota Association of Blind Students Facebook page that you guys can connect with us on. And if you have any official inquiries or questions or want to reach out to me directly, please contact students at NFB dot org, which is the email address, and I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. And please let us know if you’re interested in attending our webinar or join our monthly Student Division meeting.
Jeff: Yeah, we’ll put some links in the show notes. Ben, you mentioned a regional event for the blind student associations, and I believe some dates for that have just been set for March in 2025.
Ben: Yeah, so that is under the National Association of Blind Students, and they are planning the yearly Midwest Student seminar. I believe the official dates are March 21st through the 24th in Chicago. The planning committee, I do not believe has met quite yet, but more information about that will be forthcoming.
Jeff: Awesome. The other thing I wanted to touch on is when you’re advocating when you did mention self-advocacy, but then when you start talking about advocacy as a group, can you tell us why in numbers is great? Especially like, well, like you said, the day at the Capitol.
Ben: I think numbers is a very important part of advocacy. The quality of the work being done is important, but the number of people doing that work is just as important. It’s very easy to have the powers that be brush off 1 or 2 voices fighting for change, but the more people you have and the louder your voice, the more difficult it is to ignore. The squeaky wheel tends to get the oil, so the louder the squeaking, the more likely the wheel will get its oil. I like to talk in terms of metaphors, and how I see it, is that the people doing advocacy work are like the roots of a tree, and the roots of the tree supports the community, which is the body, branches and leaves of the tree. The deeper and more numerous the roots, the more difficult it is for the winds of a sighted world to blow the tree over. The stronger our root system is, the more likely the body of our tree will have our equal opportunity to shine and soak in the sun and get access to our rights as well, because we are just as important as anybody else in this country. So I believe having strong advocacy sets a strong foundation for our rights.
Jeff: Thank you for that, Ben. You’ve got your graduation under your belt. What does it look like now in your future? What’s coming up down the road?
Ben: I am a part of the Together Achieving Dreams Foundation, and they’ve matched me with two mentors. Blind mentors in the field of law. My current plan is to pursue a career in the field of law and hopefully go on to become a lawyer. I haven’t exactly figured out what kind of lawyer I’m going to be, but that’s part of the career exploration process. So my current plan is I will be studying for the LSAT here in the spring semester, as I have just graduated, and my future is dependent on how I do on the LSAT, and also dependent on how the career exploration process goes. But my plan is to study for the LSAT, take the LSAT twice, and then go on to do an internship for a year and then hopefully enter law school in the fall of 2026. But we will see that is the current plan. But things could change and things could come up.
Jeff: Well, I’m sure you’re ready for any changes or anything that comes up, but I believe you’re, as you said, you’re driven. I’m going to probably ask you to come back on when we find out more about your career at some later date. Well, Ben, thank you so much for providing all this information for everyone and talking about your journey and how you’ve succeeded and challenge yourself and how you’re continuing to challenge yourself. And good luck with the LSAT, and thanks for joining us here on Blind Abilities.
Ben: Yeah, thank you for having me.
{Music}
Jeff: To find out more about all the programs at State Services for the Blind, contact Shane.DeSantis@state.mn.us. That’s Shane.DeSantis@state.mn.us.
Be sure to contact your State Services for the Blind, your Voc Rehab, and find out what they can do for you. Live, work, read, succeed.
[Music] [Transition noise] –
When we share-
What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities