Podcast Summary:
In this Blind Abilities podcast, Jeff Thompson speaks with Laila Nachar, the Multiple Systems and Pathways Navigator at State Services for the Blind of Minnesota. Laila’s new role is all about helping blind and visually impaired students, ages 14 to 21, prepare for their futures by focusing on pre-employment transition services (Pre-ETS). She works alongside families, schools, and counselors to ensure students explore careers, gain real-world work experiences, and most importantly develop self-advocacy skills that will last a lifetime.
Laila emphasizes that every student’s journey is unique, and her job is to keep the focus on their dreams, not just family expectations. Through job exploration, work-based learning, and advocacy training, she helps students build confidence, discover true interests, and map out meaningful goals. Parents also gain valuable resources to support informed choices. This episode highlights a powerful partnership that empowers youth to take charge of their own future with confidence and independence.
To find out more about the services provided at State Services for the Blind, and what they can do for you, contact Shane DeSantis at shane.desantis@state.mn.us or call Shane at 651-385-5205.
Full Transcript:
[Music]
Laila Nachar:
I want to ensure that our families and our parents also have the resources and information that they need to make informed decisions. So there’s job exploration, work experiences, training and college exploration, work readiness training and self-advocacy training. These events provide fantastic opportunities to shine a light on all of their unique strengths in more of a natural environment.
Jeff Thompson:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today we have Laila Nachar and she is the Multiple Systems and Pathways Navigator at State Services for the Blind in Minnesota. Laila, welcome to Blind Abilities.
Laila Nachar:
Hi, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jeff Thompson:
Well thanks for joining us and this is a brand new initiative, this position, this title that you have. Can you describe a little bit about what you do at State Services for the Blind?
Laila Nachar:
Yes, well as you mentioned, I’m the Multiple Systems and Pathways Navigator. I can be a mouthful at times but I am getting used to saying it. So I like to think about my role as kind of like a catch-all. So I support our students, our participants, kind of like an added member of their support team. So you have the counselor, you have the case family member and you have anyone else kind of in that circle of their support team and then I’m kind of brought on if it’s a situation where you need sort of out-of-the-box thinking or you need a different set of eyes kind of looking at the situation and that’s where my skills and my background of various experiences are kind of brought on to support the students.
So I have a lot of different skills that I’ve used with students and resources and they’ve been really successful in supporting our pre-ed students. So my main goal is to support students in the Pre-ETS realm and the Pre-ETS world and I also support staff. So I’m working on a few different initiatives to support staff and to ensure that they have the tools and resources that they need to be successful in their roles as well.
And along with that I want to ensure that our families and our parents also have the resources and information that they need to make informed decisions and that’s kind of the best way to think about my role. It’s kind of like a multiple systems that is in my title.
So it’s kind of like a catch-all. There are many different facets to my role and I’m kind of on that journey to learning all of them as I navigate the first year in my role.
Jeff Thompson:
I think this is a great initiative. What age group are the students or customers that you provide services to?
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, so I start working with students at age 14. So typically starting in the ninth grade and that goes to senior year in high school or age 21. Can go to age 22.
Jeff Thompson:
How do you work with the families or teams of a customer then?
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, there are several different areas that I can work with students. So there are five different areas of Pre-ETS. We call them Pre-ETS that is short for pre-employment transition services. So there’s job exploration, work experiences, training and college exploration, work readiness training and self-advocacy training.
I’m not going to go through all of them, but I’m going to touch on three of my favorites. How about that?
When I work with families and teams of our participants, first I like to start kind of taking it slow and getting to know the participants and their families, specifically the participants because it’s all about them. So I like to always bring it back to the individual that I’m working with and remind them that this is their journey and their journey is unique and this is about them.
So I want to develop that relationship with them and that trust with them because that is extremely important to move forward and to be successful with them because we need to have that kind of legwork and that foundation built early on to be most successful. So when I’m working with families and teams, it’s all about that collaboration and that communication.
And as I mentioned, trust that level of communication is going to strengthen our trust. So I engage families in the process by providing them with resources and training on their family members’ rights and options.
Okay. And that also goes into something called informed choice. And that is when we go into their decision about working with different community partners, right? We have to present different options and things like that.
we can kind of discuss that a little bit down the road, but we always have to present different options and provide informed choice.
So let’s talk a bit about job exploration. During our job exploration, I involve our families and our participants in discussions about interests and preferences. So I have resources and tools to ensure our participants’ true interests are highlighted and discovered. And once their interests and preferences are discovered, that really takes us down that road of job exploration and kind of points us down the right path of where we should be going in terms of job exploration, kind of which avenues should we be going and which field they would be most interested in.
For work-based learning, I encourage families to support their loved ones in finding suitable internships or job training opportunities that would be best suited for them. So this also, again, is linked with their interests. So that’s why we always link it back to their interests and what’s important to the participant and reminding them that this is your journey and this is about you. It’s not about what your parents want. It’s not about what your families want for you. This is about you.
And so it’s always important to remind them about that note because that can get lost. Sometimes parents and family members have this notion that they want their family member to go to medical school or to work in a bakery or to do something that was once their dream, for example, and that’s not what the individual wants. So it’s something that when I’m working with a participant, I often have to have this conversation and kind of remind them of that. So it brings me back to that level of trust and communication and that relationship that you built with them in the beginning.
Why it’s so important to have that foundation because you’re going to need that throughout the time that you’re working with that participant and that family as a whole because it’s not just a one and done type of situation. You’re going to need that throughout the whole year, sometimes two years, sometimes three years of working with a participant and a family as a whole. So it’s vital that you have that strong bond.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Laila Nachar:
So moving on to introduction into self-advocacy. It might be my favorite if I’d have to pick a favorite. Self-advocacy using your voice and learning how to use your voice is a skill and it’s a skill that we don’t only need while we’re young, while we’re in school, while we’re in college. I mean, we need it our whole adulthood and beyond. It’s a skill that we need to know extremely well and it’s not something that we can ever be extremely precise in. It’s something that we can continue to grow and develop.
And so that’s why it might be my favorite out of all of the five Pre-ETS, If I had to pick one. so I really do enjoy teaching introduction and self-advocacy because sometimes participants don’t realize how vital it is for them to use their voice and to learn how to speak up for themselves and to advocate for themselves. And sometimes I’ll have students say, oh yeah, I know how to advocate for myself. That’s not something I need to work on. And so then we’ll start the discussion and I’ll ask them to give me examples of how they advocate for themselves. And throughout time working with them, they’ll realize, you know what? I actually don’t really advocate for myself. And they’ll start to learn things about themselves that they didn’t know. And it’s funny because they start doing their own learning, right?
It’s like they’re learning on their own and you kind of see that aha moment happening naturally and authentically. So self-advocacy is very authentic and very genuine and it’s in and of itself. And it’s something that should always be encouraged. And I also encourage counselors to also offer that always from the beginning as an area to work on very early on because it’s never too early to work on that skill.
I also conduct workshops where families and individuals can learn strategies for expressing their needs and also making informed decisions and also just encouraging that all of these skills in the house and outside of work that we do with participants to continue that growth, you know, continue it when you’re outside at the grocery store or walking the dog around the block or sitting at the dinner table.
These are skills that can continue to be worked on outside of these discussions and outside of IEP meetings, outside of a laptop, if you will.
These discussions can go beyond Zoom meetings and Teams meetings. And those are things that I like to remind family members and parents. And I like to give them tools and examples of ways that they can use them beyond our meetings.
That as an overview, those are kind of three examples of areas within Pre-ETS of how I work with families and participants. That was job exploration, work-based learning and self-advocacy.
Jeff Thompson:
I like how you started that out, that you get to know them through the introduction and then what they want. It’s about them and their goals that they want to have. And it seems like, you know, being 14 to 21 area, there’s so many people, other people involved and having you backing them up and supporting that. It’s their journey because they’re going to have districts, school districts, teachers at the IEP meetings or even county services. You’re there to help that participant stay focused on their goals that they choose.
Laila Nachar:
Yes, right, because it’s their specific journey. It’s about them. Again, I can’t count how many times I have had parents or family members jump into our meetings and try to navigate where our meeting is headed and, you know, really try to reinforce where they want them to get their job or where they want them to go to college. And so I kind of have to realign the meeting and kind of remind students, but it’s almost, it’s stronger than remind, I have to advocate for our participant when our participants are unable to advocate for themselves when their family is around them.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah, those families were probably the first advocate for the person and then to see their child grow up and begin making decisions for themselves, it’s hard for them to let go.
Laila Nachar:
Correct. And although our family members want what’s best for our participants, of course, and for their loved ones, sometimes their own, you know, personal biases and beliefs can inhibit the path that we are trying to take to go forward with our participants because their interests and their goals sometimes don’t align with the path that their loved one has, you know, their hopes and dreams and what they envision for them in their future.
And so we have to remind them this isn’t their grandma’s journey. This isn’t their uncle’s journey. This is their journey. It’s those discussions and it’s those reminders. It’s those hard conversations that we have to have. And again, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to have those with parents and family members, but I will tell you that I’ve had pleasant responses. I’ve had positive responses. And I’ve had a lot of parents say, you know what, you’re right, Laila, you are right. And thank you for bringing that to my attention. And thank you for reminding me that this is about my child and this isn’t about what I want. And thank you for helping him to find what he’s interested in and what brings him joy.
Thank you for helping him understand and increase his awareness on what he’s actually interested on instead of what he thinks that he likes. And so those conversations have ended very positively. And so there is light at the end of these conversations, these hard conversations. It’s just about kind of navigating through it and explaining kind of the process to parents and families.
I think it might sound scarier and it might sound a little bit more, I guess, stressful, if you will. But ultimately, they want what’s best for their loved one. And that’s what we want to I mean, our goal is for optimal success in the realm of Pre-ETS and in the world of pre-employment. So we do have a shared goal and it’s not their goal. It’s not what they want. And so reminding them of that is something very valuable.
Jeff Thompson:
It’s typically a first time a parent had to advocate for their kid with a disability. And it’s the first time that a parent had to advocate for them as they’re entering the pre-employment transition services.
So it’s kind of like that little bird leaving the nest. I’m glad you’re there to help everybody understand it’s okay to jump, to fly, to learn how to fly. Your position seems like a great one and a great initiative to put into place because I haven’t seen this too much in the past where someone’s there to watch for all this.
Laila Nachar:
Thank you. I love the way that you worded that, the expression about the bird leaving the nest.
Jeff Thompson:
You know, Laila, I’ve seen you at some of the events that we’ve both attended. One was at the STP program, the summer transition program where they toured SSB. And the other was when they did the ready set prep where the students came in and cooked. And you got your hands dirty in both of them.
Laila Nachar:
Yes, it was an amazing, both of them were amazing experiences. And I absolutely love being at all of the pre-employment transition events. All of them are such lively spaces filled with enthusiasm and great amounts of potential.
What is so amazing is that each of our participants and each and every individual is so different. And these events provide fantastic opportunities to shine a light on all of their unique strengths in more of a natural environment instead of sort of sitting down with them, kind of in a classroom or in an office setting and asking questions and trying to get to know them. It’s different. It’s different. You can have a conversation and share a laugh and play games or do an activity, you know, at an event and you experience things differently and you get to know each other on a different level.
So it’s a beautiful thing. I dive right in to connect with the participants as much as I can. And it’s always exciting to see their energy and creativity come to life. We engage in fun activities and make sure that everyone feels included and most importantly empowered.
I personally strive to include everyone that I come across and everyone that I’m in a room with. So if I’m around a participant that is kind of shy or kind of more inhibited, I strive to kind of like bring them out of their shell and encourage them to participate. And so that’s something that I really focus on and encourage them and empower them. And I think our pre-employment transition events are a great way to do that. And I look forward to being a part of all of our events as many that I can attend. Each event not only allows me to witness each participant’s growth, but it also reminds me of why I love what I do. And there’s something incredibly rewarding about being a part of all of our participants’ journey as they take their steps forward towards their future. And it’s a magical thing to watch.
Jeff Thompson:
Yeah. Now, I know you came over from Vocational Rehab Services in Minnesota, to State Services for the Blind, and you’ve brought over something that you’ve been trained in which is charting the life. Can you tell us about that?
Laila Nachar:
Yeah. So charting the life course, it’s a framework that assists individuals and families in envisioning and working towards the life that they want. The emphasis is on mapping out goals, identifying resources and supports available and planning for a better future.
I found it to be incredibly helpful with youth as it helps them envision their ideal future and map it out, specifically map out the steps that it takes to get there. It encourages young individuals to think outside the box when it comes to their goals, moving beyond traditional pathways and exploring what truly excites them.
This framework allows participants to identify their strengths and resources while facilitating the discovery of their specific interests. So understanding what our participants genuinely enjoy can steer them toward exciting career choices, right?
And that’s what everyone wants. I love seeing how it empowers youth to take charge of their future, fostering confidence and excitement about all of the possibilities ahead. So a great way to think about charting the life course is it’s a tool, it’s a framework. And a lot of the emphasis is on mapping out goals. And those goals are intended to plan and lay out a better future in whatever shape or form that may look like for the individual you are working with.
Jeff Thompson:
That’s quite a projection.
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, it is. And I gave you kind of a little snapshot of what charting the life course is, but there’s actually a lot to it. So I might not be doing it justice. There’s a lot to it.
Jeff Thompson:
But how many people ask that of a young person about, let’s look at your future, let’s map it out a little bit here, let’s see what the steppingstones are to get to this place that are possible. And let’s see what it looks like. I think that’s a great development thing for someone. Because I remember people saying, what do you want to be when you grow up? And you just go, a milkman or whatever you want to say, but to actually like, let’s take a look at how to get there. So that’s really a cool idea, a neat initiative there.
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, essentially, it’s a different resource. And it’s a different tool for doing sort of the same things we’ve all kind of done in school and various career planning classes, but it’s a different way to do it.
And sometimes all it takes is a different way of doing the same things we’ve already done. And then it kind of triggers something. And that’s all it takes is that one spark. And then that’s where it clicks for you.
All it takes is one click to kind of ignite that spark and that passion in the participant I’m working with. And that’s what I’m looking for. And when that spark comes, and they say, you know what, I’m ready, I’m ready to submit my resume, I’m ready to reapply to those jobs that we’ve been talking about, I’m ready to go back out there and start going back on interviews, because I’m ready to get my first job.
All it takes is that spark. And so sometimes you just need another tool to do the same things you’ve already been doing. And that’s what charting the life courses. It’s a different tool.
Jeff Thompson:
Your new job role should be creator of pathways to success.
Laila Nachar:
I like that. I like that.
Jeff Thompson:
I’ll toss it in the suggestion box.
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, let’s do that.
Jeff Thompson:
So all the stuff you’ve been talking about, I know I’m going to listen to this back and I should have asked this, I was really excited when you got to witness students interacting with each other instead of like in the office.
I think that’s important too that you got to see that you get to see a different person in a sense that, oh, that’s Billy, you get to know a little bit more about a person. And where did that all come from? What got you involved in VRS where you were and now here, what’s got you involved in this type of work?
Laila Nachar:
Yeah, that’s a great question. I often think about that too. And I remind myself of where I’m sitting. So I have a background in education, particularly in school psychology and well-being, which has laid a strong foundation for my work in vocational rehabilitation. I spent over a decade working in school psychology and well-being, but now my journey in public service began at our sister agency in VRS, also known as Vocational Rehabilitation Services.
And that is where I gain valuable insights into supporting individuals with diverse needs. And I worked there in Pre-ETS as well. And I transitioned from there into State Services for the Blind, where I am now.
And I focus now specifically on assisting participants that are blind and visually impaired in the realm of pre-employment in Pre-ETS on their journey for obtaining competitive, integrated employment and building a successful future in whatever shape or form that looks like for them and meeting them where they’re at and leading with empathy.
And that is kind of where I’m at. And I think that my unique combination of education and public service has propelled my commitment to making a meaningful difference in the lives of the individuals that I serve. And I’m really excited to be here and grateful and grateful to be where I am.
Jeff Thompson:
I think what you’re doing is awesome because I think it’s a need that needs to be met. And I’m sure a lot of parents, a lot of families, a lot of teens are really thankful that you’re there to help make the journey the best for the individuals. So thank you very much for coming on The Blind Abilities and sharing what you do at State Services for the Blind.
Laila Nachar:
Thank you, Jeff. It was great to be here. Thanks for taking the time to be with me today.
[MUSIC]
Jeff:
To find out more about all the programs at State Services for the Blind, contact shane.desantis at state.mn.us that’s s-h-a-n-e.d-e-s-a-n-t-i-s at state.mn.us.
Jeff:
Be sure to contact your State Services for the Blind, your Voc Rehab, and find out what they can do for you. Live, work, read, succeed.
[Music] [Transition noise] –
When we share-
What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities