Podcast Summary:
In this Blind Abilities conversation, Cheryl McIntosh shares her journey toward becoming a Certified Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist, or CATIS, and how she empowers others to build independence through technology. Cheryl teaches screen reader users—primarily JAWS and VoiceOver—through personalized virtual training. She explains that success starts with fundamentals like keyboard familiarity, navigating Windows, and understanding screen reader terminology. Cheryl emphasizes that each learner has unique goals, so she tailors lessons based on personal needs—whether that means mastering email for work, browsing the web, or simply staying connected with family. She also highlights the power of community and mentorship, crediting World Services for the Blind for launching her career path and praising the growing network of accessible training resources. Cheryl finds fulfillment in seeing progress firsthand: students who once doubted themselves now secure jobs and promotions thanks to new tech skills. Her story is a powerful reminder that technology can reopen doors—and rebuild confidence—after vision loss.
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Full Transcript
Cheryl: Hey, do you know how to do this? Like, yeah, you just do that. And so it’s just kind of cool to have a bunch of people who can help you instead of just feeling like that lonely island out there. Just so if they don’t need Excel, or if they don’t need whatever, I don’t teach them that or it’s mostly just what they need. So yeah, there’s so much materials now, resources and podcasts and there’s just so much out there now.
Jeff: And Cheryl.
Cheryl: Yes. And me.
Jeff: Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today in the studio we have Cheryl McIntosh and she is becoming a trainer. How should we phrase that? You’re becoming. You are, but you’re still becoming. What is it, Cheryl?
Cheryl: It’s in between. But I’m doing the CATIS certification. That’s my ultimate goal.
Jeff: And CATIS is.
Cheryl: Certified assistive technology instructional specialist.
Jeff: Ooh.
Cheryl: Yes. Very official.
Jeff: And does that cover what operating systems?
Cheryl: Any. It’s just somebody certified to teach assistive technology to people that need it.
Jeff: And what’s your specialty?
Cheryl: Um, well, I would say windows is mine, but I do have a mac that I know how to use. And I also have a Chromebook that I’m learning how to use. So give me some time on that one.
Jeff: A lot more tools in your toolbox.
Cheryl: Oh yeah. But I just like to learn new things all the time. So once I accomplish it, I just move on and learn something new.
Jeff: To me, it’s retention.
Cheryl: Mhm.
Jeff: Because I switch back and forth and I don’t know how many times I hit the V.O. keys on my laptop, my PC laptop.
Cheryl: I do that too.
Jeff: Oops.
Cheryl: Yep.
Jeff: If I do that it should just say oops to me or something like ah.
Cheryl: Jeff, you are on a windows machine. This doesn’t work.
Jeff: Yeah. So when you’re teaching, do you do it virtually then?
Cheryl: Yes, I do, and it’s actually worked out really well. We typically use zoom and meet with a student. They share their audio with me so I can hear their computer, so I can hear jaws or whatever they’re using, and it works out really well. I wasn’t really sure about it at first, but I’m actually pretty impressed with how well it works. Now. Some students, if they really are struggling, I’ve just had them call me on the phone and I can hear their computer, and I can guide them through what they need to learn that way as well.
Jeff: Because they got to get to a certain aptitude to get connected and all that stuff. So, the phone kind of levels that playing field.
Cheryl: Yep. It’s not that bad because I just need to hear what jaws is saying and I can interpret it from there. I can tell them what to do based on what jaws is saying.
Jeff: So when people join up like this, you probably find out a lot right off the bat. Like, are they using just their laptop keyboard? Are they using an external keyboard? Is there some prerequisites that they get before they start a session with you?
Cheryl: Yeah, I would hope that they would have decent keyboarding skills. I mean, not perfect by any means, but just kind of know where the keys are.
Jeff: Oh, I mean, like a lot of people I know that have a laptop, have an external keyboard.
Cheryl: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can’t say it’s any of my students have had an external keyboard as of yet. Although I think it would be good if they did, because I like the layout of an external keyboard a little bit better.
Jeff: Mhm.
Cheryl: Because on the laptop, they’re all kind of smushed together. It’s hard for them to tell where keys end and where keys begin. So at least on some of the external keyboards they have like chunks of keys like mine has F1 through F4 and like a group.
Jeff: Oh yeah.
Cheryl: So it’s just a lot easier to identify where the keys are and a little bit less counting as well.
Jeff: Right, F12 takes a while.
Cheryl: Oh yeah.
Jeff: If you exclude the first one that doesn’t count as a one.
Cheryl: And then if you miscount, then you’re over like printing screen and you’re just, like, pressing all kinds of keys.
Jeff: Escape or now hit the windows key. The windows key? What?
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: I’ve always been told the difference between keyboards. Like the spacebar to the left of that. Sometimes there’s three, sometimes there’s four. It depends on where that function key ends up.
Cheryl: Yep.
Jeff: Sometimes it’s in the keypad.
Cheryl: Yep. External keyboard that I really like on the right side has an applications key that will save you so much time because the applications key essentially is the right click, which brings up that context menu which has all these additional options. So if you don’t have an applications key you have to use shift F10 which again you’re counting all the way over to ten. And that can take some time. So if there’s a designated key right there I would get that one.
Jeff: Keyboard acrobatics.
Cheryl: Yeah, I absolutely love keyboards I don’t know, it’s kind of a weird thing, but they kind of make life easier.
Jeff: I bet, especially in what you’re doing and trying to teach people. So how does someone start out? Where do they start? They got jaws and now they realize they’re fumbling around. So what’s day one look like?
Cheryl: Mostly, day one is just making sure they can get on the computer, and we go over the basics of windows, like how to get to the desktop and how to open up the start menu to begin finding programs and all those kinds of things. So just the basic layout, basic structure of where they’re needing to go.
Jeff: Mhm.
Cheryl: I have a student right now actually he’s never used jaws a day in his life until last month. And so that’s kind of where we began. So he did have previous computer skills. But I kind of act as that interpreter between what he used to be able to see and what jaws is saying and to kind of let him know like, oh, okay. You know, that space at the bottom, that line where all the programs were that’s called the taskbar, you know, because I think when you use a computer as a sighted person, you just know what it looks like. So you might not know what it’s called, because oftentimes our screen readers tell us what we’re on or what we’re doing, but we don’t necessarily know what it’s called.
Jeff: So navigation bar…
Cheryl: Yeah, like in windows at the upper right corner they have like the X and the minimize maximize. So everybody knows what those look like and the different colors and everything. But you know in jaws we call it a system menu. So understanding what that is and how to get to it and how to use it.
Jeff: Yeah. What got you interested in teaching accessibility?
Cheryl: I’ve always really enjoyed teaching, and I just started working with people on their computers, and I just really like doing it.
Jeff: I’m just saying this because it’s far fetched from your master’s degree.
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of ways, I mean, even though a lot of nutrition is teaching, though, there is that big teaching element to it. But I like it better because I meet with people over time, and so I can really see their progress. When I was doing nutrition stuff, it was like you met with somebody, you might only meet with them for five minutes. And you, you know, give them some worksheets. Tell them, you know, whatever. And they move on and you might not ever see them again. So I worked at a place for a while, and I worked with people with multiple disabilities, and I absolutely loved working with them, but I saw them every week, you know, they would come to my classes every week and I could kind of see their progress. And I think I really like that, and I like that about it, is that you get to work with these people and like this guy that I have now, you know, never used a computer with jaws. And in a few months time, he’ll be on his way.
Jeff: That’s rewarding.
Cheryl: Yes it is. Yes. And I love a lot of it, because a couple weeks ago I actually had two of my students. Now I teach them all kinds of things and sometimes I forget, oh, did I teach them that or not? But they’ll challenge me like, well, couldn’t we just do it this way? And I’m like, yes. And so you kind of see that learning has taken place because now they’re thinking about something that I taught them and they’re using it like, oh, this would actually be better than what you’re telling me. And so I love to be challenged in that way. And I don’t know, it’s just it’s just really cool to see people learn. And not only that, but a lot of these skills that they’re learning are very essential for life, like learning how to manage their bills, learning how to get recipes and directions and information that they need.
Jeff: So, like searching the web.
Cheryl: Yes, yes.
Jeff: Well, that’s really neat when you decided that this is something I want to do, what was the catalyst? What brought you to seek out training and where did you go?
Cheryl: You know, what’s interesting is I had been debating on what I wanted to do. There was a couple of things I had in mind, and I had reached out to my voc rehab counselor and opened my case with them. And I, you know, struggled getting in contact with them, meeting up and stuff. So in December, I had went to an orientation mobility program at Leader Dog, which is a really great program, by the way, and I had met a few people who were new to vision loss, and they were wanting to know how to use VoiceOver and they were getting frustrated. And one had actually worked with somebody for like a week. But a lot of the essential skills she didn’t know how to do. So we sat after dinner and I’m sure the staff was annoyed, but we sat after dinner for like a couple hours and I just taught them all, like the basics of voiceover and you know, how to get from page to page and you know, all those things that you need to know. And one of the O&M instructors there, she’s like, you know, you should go into the CATIS program and you should go to WSB. So I said, okay, that’s what I’m doing. So I left there and that Monday I applied.
Speaker5: Oh, wow.
Cheryl: Yeah. So it was like somebody else who, you know, kind of. But it was those two there that kind of said, okay, this is what you should be doing. And then a few months later I started the program.
Jeff: And what was that like? Was it what you expected?
Cheryl: Yeah. I mean, I had read a lot about it. I had attended webinars. I had, so I was kind of prepared as to what would be going on there. But I really like it too, because, you know, when you’re in college, a lot of times you’re the only person who has jaws or, you know, screen reader, voiceover, whatever. And so there’s nobody to talk to about it. If you go to your professor and you say, hey, this isn’t accessible, or hey, this, you know, they don’t really know what you’re talking about, right? Because they don’t use the program. But like all my instructors use these programs.
Jeff: Did you use the Jaws cursor?
Cheryl: Yes. Oh, well, here, let me look at it. Let me see what we can do. And it’s like you get that feedback because they use it too. So that’s really cool. And all the other people as well. So my other students, we just had somebody text earlier saying, hey, do you know how to do this? It’s like, yeah, you just do that. And so it’s just kind of cool to have a bunch of people who can help you instead of just feeling like that lonely island out there. Just. But yeah, I, I’ve really enjoyed the program.
Jeff: Yeah, I remember I think it was jaws 3.1. This is…
Cheryl: Oh.
Jeff: Yeah. Quite a few years ago.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: When windows 95 basically came out, they had it and it was called Henter Joyce back in the day. Yeah. And we had Dectalk, which was an external voice synthesizer.
Cheryl: Yes. I’ve heard.
Speaker6: It was just so different.
Jeff: And when I first went to a blindness training, I first lost eyesight. The computer was something I couldn’t really utilize, and it was kind of new at the time, too. I mean, I think it was 97 when I lost my eyesight, and 95 is when windows 95 came out. That’s when people really started migrating into the computer world because of the interface. And I remember they set me out in the hallway because they had class going on, but I was so new that they just set me out in the hallway with this computer on wheels in a chair, and all of a sudden, like,…
Cheryl: A Cow.
Jeff: what? a cow?
Cheryl: That’s what they call a computer on wheels. Is a cow.
Jeff: Yeah. So me and this cow, we’re out in the hallway And there was a voice coming out of the box. You know, it’s like. It’s like a roadmap. I can navigate with this thing. So I just thought, you know, there was listservs back then where you could get on and talk to people about learning. So it was almost self-taught in the beginning days, I guess, and it was just kind of neat. But I was so intrigued that I could navigate and do stuff, and I knew I would have to just, you know, that self-teaching comes in, so that must be exciting. When you have someone that’s you come back a week later or whenever you talk to them next, and they’re already moved on to chapter three or something, and great.
Cheryl: Or oh, I was looking into this and I wasn’t sure how to do it, so I looked it up or whatever, and I’m like, yes. And especially now they have jaws companion and they have more help now than ever before too.
Jeff: They have the Freedom Scientific Training podcast as well, where they go through some tips and tricks for people.
Cheryl: Yeah. There’s so many resources now. I mean, that’s really, really great because at one point it was really hard to get that information. Even when I started, it was a little bit more, more of a struggle to find the information than obviously now.
Jeff: Well, yeah, to find a network of people that actually were using it and had the time to talk to you about it. So yeah, today’s a lot different playing field, although it has its obstacles as well.
Cheryl: Yes.
Jeff: Like we said, some people have keyboards that are like how did this ever become a keyboard? I noticed that a lot of people like to not a lot of people I know some people that like to design their keyboards. In other words, switch it around like the caps lock or this, that or the other thing and they’ll reassign functions for their keys. Are you into that?
Cheryl: From time to time? I try to keep it simple because I’ve been working with somebody. I kind of want it to be similar to what they’re experiencing. So definitely I do tend to like Turning jaws on laptop mode, even if I’m not using a laptop keyboard, just because it gives you that capslock key as a modifier key, and then it gives you the other two. So you have the insert on the six pack, and then you have insert on the numpad as well. So sometimes depending on what keystroke you’re trying to press, that caps lock key can be helpful.
Jeff
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: Then I know sometimes with Microsoft putting those f keys getting them set to the right standard I guess.
Cheryl: Oh yes. okay, because that’s one of the big things is especially on a laptop they have the function key. But you have to press the function key in order to use those because otherwise they’re media keys. And so oftentimes I’m hearing volume up volume up. You gotta press the function key. And they’re like oh I always forget. So yeah sometimes learning that can be a little bit of a struggle. But depending on the model you can reverse those so that their function keys first and then media keys with the function key later.
Jeff: Isn’t it amazing how you doubted that you might not be able to do it virtually, but then all of a sudden the audible comes in and it’s like you’re right on top of it.
Cheryl: Yeah. And you know, if you know how to, like, listen to the screen reader and listen to see what it’s saying, you can kind of know what’s happening. Like the other day, I had a student who was pressing shift f ten and they thought they were pressing, I don’t know, shift F6 or something, and it kept saying context menu. And I’m like, okay, you’re pressing shift F10. So I just knew that based on what I was hearing, I knew what they were doing. I didn’t need to be there.
Jeff: So they were four off.
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah. And like I’m pressing F6. I’m like, but it says context. Menu. So you’re you’re a couple over. So let’s go. If you back and use shift F6.
Jeff: That goes back to like you said, they’re in groups of four. So you can go 4, 8, 12.
Cheryl: Yeah, I think theirs is all one big line though. So they have to count.
Jeff: Oh yeah,
kind of like on the Mac. You got the keyboard. It’s like one flat feels like someone put away the dominoes and it’s just flat. Can’t decipher too much.
Cheryl: Yeah, and you can’t really put the bump dots on the Mac either, because I guess it messes with the screen.
Jeff: I found that bump dots. Some of them are flat, very, very flat. And they just have like a little tip sticking through so you can kind of sense it. And I remember doing that when I first began. And then when they came off I didn’t need them. It’s like training wheels sometimes just for that early on stuff. But no matter what you’re using I feel that you’ll get used to. You’ll get accustomed to using it. And then once muscle memory comes in, that’s the question I want to ask you. You’ve probably used so much muscle memory. How was it to get to the point to teach it yet? Did you have to, like, back up a little bit and go, okay, this is how I do that?
Cheryl: Yes, yes. Because oftentimes you’re like, okay, I know what keys I’m pressing. But then I would have to like, do it on my own keyboard and like, oh, okay, you press this and sometimes I’ll tell my students, like, give me a second, let me pull up word or whatever we’re trying to do, and I’ll just do it on my end just to make sure that I’m telling them. Because I think that’s even worse is to get like the wrong keystroke and tell them, because then they’ll keep remembering that wrong keystroke. So I always want to be right first tell them so that they’re not struggling with, oh wait, but didn’t you say it was this? And then then you have, well, I did, but yeah.
So I always like to be right. Like. And if I have to take a second or if I don’t know, I just like, hey, let me figure it out. I don’t want to tell you the wrong thing.
Jeff: Like, sometimes when I’m trying to explain something to someone on let’s say I’m using my Mac, I’ll hit the VOC, which is that learning mode for the keyboard, and it puts it in where you just it’ll just repeat back what you’re pressing, and I have to slow it down and just kind of hit the keys.
Cheryl: Oh yeah.
Jeff: Then I tell them, because I don’t even think anymore for especially if I’m doing editing or something. What key did you hit there? Uh, I don’t know. Um.
Cheryl: Yeah. And that keyboard help is actually a really cool thing. And on jaws now they have these, like, voice controls which are basically like, Alexa, I don’t want to say it because, you know, everybody’s machine will go off, but you can just say, hey, s h a r k y, turn on keyboard help or whatever, and it turns it on because that’s the one thing you have to use insert. Well, if you don’t know where your insert key is, how do you turn on the keyboard? Help.
Jeff: Ok, so far we got the applications key. We got the windows key. We got the insert key. Your numpad num lock on num lock off.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: And make sure that function key is pressed before you hit F6.
Cheryl: Yeah. So you learned all these things because oftentimes if you use a keyboard you don’t have vision loss. A lot of these other keys you probably aren’t going to be using all that often, you know, like alt and control windows and then your six pack, which of course you’re probably thinking you’re talking about something other than what’s on the keyboard. And I always have like, you know, interesting ways of teaching those as well. So like, for example, the six pack, I always describe it in a way for them to remember. So like the first column has insert and delete below it. So I always say that’s your ID and then the next one is home and end. So that’s the he. And then the last one is pub or pub. One of my students calls it the pub. So I’m like, okay, well let’s call it the pub. I just try to figure out like little ways to teach them things. My one student always tells me that he’s like, you always have these funny analogies on everything, but he’s like, it makes sense.
Jeff: So it’s really interesting when you have on the right hand side, when you have the one, two, three, four, you know, through nine zero, but it’s upside down from a telephone for all of us who once used the phone, you know.
Cheryl: Yes. And then they’re like, well, I’m pressing, you know, because when the numpad is off, some of those keys become like your six pack. If you don’t have a six pack, like on a laptop, for example. So like zero is the insert key. And then like one and seven are like home and end. So they’ll be pressing like seven and be like well I’m pressing home or or I’m sorry end. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Jeff: That’s what happens. It gets flipped in the head.
Cheryl: Yeah. So you know, like, okay, we’ll go. You know, it’s like reverse. So the seven key is home and the one key is end.
Jeff: I remember there used to be a page up page down over there too.
Cheryl: Yep. The page up. Page down is nine is page up. Three is page down. And then zero is insert. And the decimal point is delete.
Jeff: There you go.
Cheryl: I feel like the numpad is like very underutilized as well. Like there’s a lot of options there. Like I said you can turn that off and use those as like the six pack, those different keys. You can start a bulleted list with the asterisk, like there’s a lot of stuff you can do over there, but I feel like a lot of people don’t use it.
Jeff: So once people start to navigate, what do they like to learn? Do they like to learn, set up their mail, or go into word and start doing a letter, then sending a file over to a mail and sending it. What’s the progression like?
Cheryl: Yeah. Email is one of those ones that they like to learn. If they have the Outlook Classic, we tend to use that. But if they have Gmail, you know, I can teach. So I have some students that are at the program in Arkansas. And so we have a curriculum for them. And so they start out with File Explorer. Then they move into Outlook and Word and Internet and Excel. But for some of my personal clients, it’s really just depends on what they need. So if they don’t need Excel or if they don’t need whatever, I don’t teach them that or it’s mostly just what they need.
Jeff: So personalized.
Cheryl: Yes. Each person has their own need. They may have no desire to learn Excel. So we don’t do Excel. I had one guy who I was like, well, do you, you know, want email because he didn’t have an email address. And I’m like, well, do you want to learn how to do email? No, I was like, but you need email for like Bard and things. He’s like, nope, I’m good. I’ll just call the library. So so it just depends on the person.
Jeff: So how can someone, if they want to learn more about this, how can someone get A hold of you?
Cheryl: Probably the best way would just be to email me. My email address is my name. So c h e r y l b, like boy, Macintosh mc I n t o s h at gmail.com.
Jeff: Yeah, I’m sure there’s people out there that want to learn more about jaws or the Mac or any accessibility.
Cheryl: Yes.
Jeff: Or someone might be interested in doing the journey that you’ve been doing on becoming a CATIS.
Cheryl: Yes, it’s a popular program. We have quite a few students.
Jeff: So how long does it take?
Cheryl: It just kind of depends on the person. So I think the ATI program, which is the first part, is projected to be about 12 months, but you can finish it earlier than that if you know, if you have, if you kind of rush through the material or you know…
Jeff: You’re motivated.
Cheryl: And then the CATIS part I think is like another six months because there’s like a prep program and then however long it takes you to get your hours.
Jeff: Now, you said you did some webinars. Is that open on YouTube or something for people just to take in, or is that part of the program?
Cheryl: Yeah, they have some webinars on YouTube. So if you like, follow the WSB account. They’re there and they talk about the program. I think some of them are a little bit dated. So some of the material might be a little bit out of date. But I think for the most part they’re correct.
Jeff: What is WSB.
Cheryl: World Services for the blind.
Jeff: Ah, that’s a big program.
Cheryl: Yeah. Somebody just told me recently that they’re the only vocational school for the blind in the world.
Jeff: Hence the W in their name.
Cheryl: Yeah, but I think it’s a great program. I’ve enjoyed my time there.
Jeff: So there you go.
Cheryl: Yeah. And you know, this is October, so the Blind Employment Month or whatever. I had one of my students who I started working with in April, she was actually my first student. She got promoted.
Jeff: Really.
Cheryl: So she learned all this stuff and she got promoted at work. And I just got the news today that my other student that I’ve been working with, who’s, you know, been trying to find work, just got a job.
Jeff: Ah.
Cheryl: Yeah. So I’m like so excited for them that they got. And I feel like these skills that they’ve learned are so important like email and you know, because these are things that they’re going to be doing at work and so like to get efficient and fast with them because I always emphasize efficiency as well. Like there’s a really fast way to do it, like place markers on the web and, you know, different things like that that can get them places faster. And I had my other student yesterday. He’s like, you know, because he’s the one who could see. He’s like, this is faster than using the mouse. And I’m like, yes, a lot of this stuff is faster than using the mouse. If you get good with it, it is faster.
Jeff: It is. I remember when I was learning jaws and all the commands and stuff, then I started learning more about like word and the Microsoft commands and it’s like, oh wow, you can just do that or do this and boom, boom, boom, you know, like make something bold, italic or something of that nature, you know, just boom, or centered.
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: I don’t think it’s just jaws. There’s a lot of Microsoft commands. So that’s really neat that people can begin learn at their own pace. And then, like you said, the people in Arkansas are going through a program so they have an agenda. But if they wanted to accelerate in word or even Excel for those who like Excel, that they could then dig in… Mhm.
Cheryl: Yep. There’s so much materials now resources and podcasts And there’s just so much out there now…
Jeff: And Cheryl.
Cheryl: Yes, in me. And I think for some people they like that they like somebody that accountability that somebody showing up every week or every day or whatever it is, you know, because it’s like one thing to have all the information out there, but then you have to sit down with it and really work with it. So if you have somebody that’s going to be showing up every week or every day, or however often it is, then they’re like, oh, I gotta learn this because she’s going to ask me about it, you know? So I think regardless of how much information is out there, I think, you know, the teacher is still going to be important in that role.
Jeff: Oh yeah.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: It’s like piano lessons if you don’t practice your recitals. Not going to be that good.
Cheryl: Yeah. Yep. And then sometimes something will happen like oftentimes there’s problems. For example in word you open up word and sometimes it doesn’t start reading. But there’s like a trick. You do the alt tab away and then alt tab back. And then all of a sudden something happens and it’s perfect, right? But if you’re just sitting down and they’re telling you like, oh, you just down arrow and it starts reading and nothing’s happening, you’re going to be like, something’s wrong with me. I’m not doing this right, and you’re going to get frustrated, but I can step in and be like, okay, let’s try this.
Jeff: Mhm.
Cheryl: The other day, one of my students press the windows key and went to type in the program. Nothing happened. And I’m like okay well that’s not going to work. And he didn’t have the program on his desktop or his taskbar. So I’m like okay, let’s use the run dialog. So it’s like I don’t use the run dialog all that often. But in that instance, good. But he might not have known about it, so he would have just sat there frustrated because he’s like, I can’t open a program. He just needed to restart his computer. But and a lot of people, you know, they I have one student who’s tried to learn jaws several times and, you know, kept picking it up, putting it down, picking it up, putting it down, you know, so there’s that too. So.
Jeff: Well, I think it’s all motivation. Some people just need to find something motivated to like, say they’re going to learn to write an email to someone. Then they get an email back, and then they start corresponding with some people. That gets them very good at emailing because there’s a motivation there, and then they move on to other things to like get a certain program they want to learn how to work or something, you know, so it’s you’re diving in that really makes a difference.
Cheryl: And I feel like that’s such a big thing in our community, especially with vision loss, is when they start to lose their vision, they stop doing things and then their world just kind of gets smaller and smaller. And then to have somebody come and say, hey, you know what, you can send emails to your family, you can do these things. And then they do it and then it’s like this big thing and then the world starts opening back up, because I’ve seen that where, you know, they want to send emojis to people, but they’re not sure exactly what they are and they don’t want to send the wrong one. So then they just don’t do it.
Jeff: Just write smiley face.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: Put it in quotes.
Cheryl: But you know, you know what I mean. Like if you can’t see the smileys anymore and they all kind of like look the same and somebody tells you something sad and you send like a party face emoji, like that would be like not a good thing. But yeah, like oftentimes there’s things they want to do but they don’t know how to do them or they feel like they can’t do them. And then somebody comes along and says, hey, you know what? Actually you can do this.
Jeff: That’s really neat. Some people I mean, if you’re on a curriculum, you’re going to learn this, this, this and this. But sometimes with a teacher like yourself, hey, let’s dive into emojis for a minute.
Cheryl: Yeah. Because I mean, who doesn’t want to send emoji?
Jeff: I know there’s some really good ones now. It’s like.
Cheryl: Yeah.
Jeff: That’s unique.
Cheryl: Even when we first got our iPhones, like years ago, there was like all these things we could do that, you know, we couldn’t do before.
Jeff: Oh man. Yeah. The world just opens up a little bit, like you said, it closes and then all of a sudden it was certain technology You can start opening that up and you want to get out a little bit more. So good job. Yeah that’s great. And I’ll put some links in the show notes here. So Cheryl, thank you so much on talking about your journey and the programs that you’ve been taking and the people you’ve been helping. Great job.
Cheryl: Oh thank you.
{Music}
Jeff: For more podcasts with the blindness perspective check us out on the web at www.blindabilities .com. And if you want to leave some feedback give us some suggestions give us a call at 612 367 6093.
We’d love to hear from you. I want to thank you for listening and until next time bye-bye.
I want to thank you for listening, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] –
When we share-
What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.