Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Welcome to Blind Abilities, we got a great conversation coming up here. Qudsiya Naqui, a lawyer, an advocate, fellow podcaster, joined me in the Blind Abilities studio, and I think you\u2019re really gonna like this conversation. We just started out talking, and whoa. It\u2019s a really great conversation, and I\u2019m so glad to be able to share it with you. And if you want more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store, or Google Play store. That\u2019s two words, Blind Abilities. So without further ado, here\u2019s Qudsiya Naqui, in conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
When you wrote to me, I was really excited, because I always love to reach young people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Please welcome Qudsiya Naqui, sharing her experience transitioning from a sighted student to a visually impaired student.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I know that experience so well, you know. It was in that, like, high school, like college, law school period of time, where I really lost a lot of vision, and I know what it\u2019s like to go through that at that time in your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Oh, what a fence to sit on. I did the same thing, I was the golden child of the blind, because I had residual sight, and then as time went on, I had to use the voiceover, I had to use JAWS, I had to don my cane. Interesting that you did that article, \u201cThe Best-\u201c what was it, 34 dollars?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, the best money I ever spent, yeah. Yeah, for Vox, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
And here\u2019s a quick snippet of the article published in Vox.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
JAWS:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The best 34 dollars and 32 cents I ever spent. My white cane. As a blind person, it was a conscious investment in my own independence, by Qudsiya Naqui. I touched down in Denver, made my way through the airport, and got an Uber to a restaurant a friend had recommended. I had made a reservation in advance, walked right in, and was seated at the bar. I enjoyed an entr\u00e9e and a cocktail and caught up on podcasts while I ate my meal. Later, I paid my bill, then took another Uber to my hotel. This all sounds pretty mundane. As a 35-year-old professional, I had gone on a million business trips before, but as a newly minted openly blind person, it was a huge first for me. Checking in with the hostess, ordering the dinner I selected in advance after perusing the menu online, and being just another patron amid the chatter and clinking of dishes in the hip, busy downtown spot made me feel powerful and present in a way that was entirely new \u2014 and frankly, the meal was quite delicious. As I settled into my hotel room that night, I thought about the object that made this whole trip possible: my white cane. Wielding the cane in the airport, at the restaurant, and in the hotel made me feel powerful and in control, but I recalled a time when that was not the case. I remembered when pulling out the white cane filled me with shame. It was the symbol of my failure to be sighted.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And for the entire story, click on the link in the show notes. That was really interesting, that that article was the article that all of a sudden I just turned and dug in a little bit, I said wow, she wrote an article about a 34 dollar cane, and here she is. You\u2019re doing a lot of things, in my mind, that is one of the hardest things to do from a blindness perspective, is trying to bring awareness to the sighted community, or the institutions, and bring it down to the everyday person out there, so that policies and stuff would impact someone just not knowing, like when you took the LSAT, not knowing what you, your rights are, what you can do, or what opportunities can be had so when you started losing more eyesight to where you are today, that gap is hard to bridge. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I would agree, and I think there\u2019s a lot that people don\u2019t know, like you know, thank you for listening to that episode that I did of the podcast, Unfair Nation, where I talked about my experience with higher education and the LSAT, and things like that, and I had no idea that I could advocate for myself. I didn\u2019t really think oh, I should challenge this, this is wrong, and part of that is because we are raised in this ableist structure where everything around us is designed for typically abled people, and it\u2019s really hard to question that, it\u2019s sort of a power dynamic, and I think my moment of empowerment was when I did raise my hand say hey, this isn\u2019t right, I should have access, I should be able to participate equitably and equally with my sighted peers or my non-disabled peers, and once you start to flip that switch for yourself, like sort of conceptually in your mind, it becomes a lot easier to demand the things that you need and to know the things that you need and to know what you can ask for, so I think that that was really a powerful experience for me. The LSAT, I kind of was defeated in that instance, and then later on in my life I experienced some challenges in a workplace, and that really was the place where I flipped the switch, because I was experiencing some things, and I was very fortunate that I had a really good friend of mine who worked in the same workplace, and she was sighted but she was witnessing, and I was describing to her the things, the kind of discriminatory behavior I was experiencing, and she said, you know, this is not right. You need to get an advocate, and you need to challenge this, because this isn\u2019t okay, and I did that, and that was really an incredible experience, because that person came in and they validated my sort of feeling that I was internalizing as though this is my fault, this is my problem to solve, and she said no, this is not your fault or your problem to solve, it is society\u2019s problem to solve, this workplace should be designed to accommodate you, to give you the things you need to maximize your success, and to maximize your contributions, and you have the right to ask for that, and they are duty-bound to give that to you, and I think that experience really changed, was just transformative for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Just before that experience, though, were you like, lost within yourself, looking for answers?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I think I had a lot of insecurity, because I wasn\u2019t able to participate in the world like a sighted person, and I think I\u2019m sure a lot of your listeners, young people out there who are experiencing vision loss, who are going through these transitions. You know, when you\u2019re in school, when you\u2019re in high school or in college, you want to fit in and you want to sort of do what everyone else is doing, and it doesn\u2019t occur to you that oh, I can do what everyone else is doing or do what I want to do, I just need to do it a different way, and everyone as a community around you needs to participate in finding those solutions with you, and you\u2019re not alone in that. Like, it\u2019s really hard, the universe isn\u2019t sending disabled people that message, right? And I think that\u2019s changing, and I\u2019m really excited to see that change, and I want to be part of that change, but it\u2019s hard, and yes, I do feel like I centered everything around myself, like oh, it\u2019s my disability, it\u2019s my problem, I\u2019m carrying this burden of solving everything myself, and once I realized that I\u2019m not alone in that, and that non-disabled people as much as disabled people are also responsible for providing me with access, I felt that burden sort of lift off of me, and I felt so much more empowered to like, ask for what I need and to demand that things be designed for me. That feeling of lostness is very much something I felt, for a long time in my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You know that part where you started advocating for yourself, I reached that point but it feels like there\u2019s a new, it\u2019s invigorating, a new person within myself gets awoken, like all my energy that I used to use for other things is back again, but I can focus it somewhere else, you know, focus it on something and it\u2019s almost like you\u2019ve gotta be selfish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I agree, I think once I stepped outside of myself, I understood how to do self-advocacy and do it well, I felt like I could be a better person, I could be a better sibling, I could be a better daughter to my parents, I could be a better member of my community, because I wasn\u2019t like constantly focused on like, how am I gonna get from point A to point B at night, or how am I gonna, whatever, or oh, I\u2019m gonna plot my cane and people are gonna make fun of me, like I wasn\u2019t like obsessed about like- and like you said, in this like selfish space, and that gave me so much room to like, to be a better person, to be a person who\u2019s contributing in their community, and also doing the things I enjoy doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
Mm-hm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
[Guitar riff plays]<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Welcome to Blind Abilities, I\u2019m Jeff Thompson. We\u2019re talking to Qudsiya Naqui, and she\u2019s a lawyer, an advocate, and a podcaster. Welcome to the show, Qudsiya.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Thanks so much, Jeff. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
It\u2019s exciting to have you on here, I\u2019ve listened to your podcast, Down to the Struts, which is a very unique name, it brought me back, and you\u2019re an advocate, I\u2019ve heard you on other podcasts as well, and very good stuff. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Sure. So as Jeff said, my name is Qudsiya Naqui, and I use she\/her pronouns, and I am coming to you from the ancestral lands of the Nacotchtank, Anacostan, and Piscataway peoples, also known as Washington D.C. As a physical description, I am a South Asian woman, and I have light brown skin, dark eyes, and straight hair that kind of goes down to my shoulders, and today I am wearing a fun outfit, I\u2019m wearing leather pants and a leopard print top. I\u2019m really delighted to be here. By training, I\u2019m an attorney, I\u2019ve dedicated my career to working on issues related to access to justice. That\u2019s a very amorphous term, but what that means is making sure that people, whether they\u2019re disabled people, immigrants, people of color, anyone who is trying to access the legal system is able to do so equitably and is able to have a fair shake. That\u2019s kind of what my professional work has been dedicated to, and then in addition as Jeff said, I am the host of a podcast called Down to the Struts, about disability design and intersectionality. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can also visit our website at www.downtothestruts.com, and of course we\u2019re on Twitter and Facebook, and Instagram as well, called Down to the Struts. So I have had the privilege in that podcast of interviewing lots of interesting people, talking about all sorts of things related to disability, whether it\u2019s related to access to the arts, policing, immigration, law, you name it. Education, I feel very privileged to have had the opportunity to speak with so many cool, smart people, and now I get to speak with another really cool, smart person, and that is Jeff!<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We might edit that out, but that\u2019s great. No, it\u2019s really cool, I highly suggest people listen to the podcast Down to the Struts, and there\u2019s a special bonus episode that talks about the team that you have, that does it, so if anyone else is interested in podcasting, that\u2019s a good episode, I really enjoyed that one, hearing about the passion that the other players have as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I\u2019m lucky to have such a great team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
In the line of your work, you probably work with policy a lot, and I have a question, it kind of goes off our mission statement that says, I\u2019ll blend it together, how do we go from policy expectations, how do we bridge that gap between the limited expectations and the realities of blind abilities? I guess what I\u2019m saying is, we see a lot of white papers being passed around, lot of ideas, lot of policy changes, you know, we have the ADA, and maybe that needs to be revisited today. How do we bridge the gap between the realities today and policies that are out there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s a really great question, and a great way to think about this, and I think you\u2019re right, that the ADA and Section 504 of the Rehab Act, the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act, all of these laws are really powerful tools, and they do create protections against discrimination, but they don\u2019t fully break down the sort of cultural barriers and cultural prejudices that result in the ableism that many of us experience, and you know, this very much connects with this idea of the difference between the medical model of disability and the social model of disability, so instead of focusing on people\u2019s individual impairment and how that affects their bodies, how do we actually design structures and systems that provide access for those bodies in whatever way they experience the world, you know, whether that\u2019s a museum making sure that all of its exhibits include audio descriptions or an opportunity for tactile experiences of art or whether that\u2019s making sure that disabled immigrants who are in detention and immigration court have access to the accommodations they need to meaningfully participate in the process that we\u2019ve laid out for people who are trying to live in this country. So I think it\u2019s a shift of focusing on the individual and their sort of brokenness, which is definitely an assumption of, you know, non-disabled people, but more about, okay, where is this person at and how can we design a policy or a physical built environment to provide the access that that person needs?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mm-hm. I\u2019ve always found it problematic in a sense when you\u2019re trying to do an encompassing change, and yet when in reality it comes down to, I know as a teacher of the blind that there needs to be a lot of one-on-one. I get the individuality part of that, especially because the degree of blindness in people changes over, well, it does change. One day you may see a little bit, at night you may not see at all, or five years later it could change too, and so to have one big giant way of doing things doesn\u2019t work for everybody. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and that\u2019s why I think we need to create options for people and make it possible for people to experience things in lots of different ways, and another thing I like to point to often is part of the problem in this culture shift is when we\u2019re in school, I went to a mainstream public school, and then later to a private school, I didn\u2019t go to a school for, specifically for, you know, blind children, and something I\u2019m realizing now as an adult is that I never saw, you know, we never read books about, you know, that are written by or featuring blind characters, or disabled characters in general for that matter. As you learn, you know, civil rights history, we didn\u2019t learn about the disability civil rights movement in school, in history class. So as I was going through school, I realized there was no one that experienced the world like me that I was seeing represented in the literature we read, or the history we learned about, and same thing for the non-disabled kids around me, so it\u2019s unsurprising that these non-disabled kids who didn\u2019t get any exposure to disability history or culture growing up in school as part of our education system, grew up and have no clue. So it\u2019s sort of not surprising, so I think that culture shift also needs to start in part in how we educate our children \u2013 both our disabled children and our non-disabled children.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I agree with you totally, because it\u2019s so hard to change someone who\u2019s 50, 60- not to pick on 50, 60-year-olds, but they\u2019ve been entrenched systemically, they\u2019ve grown up and their neurons, everything\u2019s set to be this certain way, and if they have no experience other than watching Mr. Magoo or something like that, what else can they draw from when their first, instantaneous response when you\u2019re at a intersection and you see a blind person, oh, they need help, that boy scout moment may come out. It\u2019s kind of an innocent thing for them, but it is challenging when you are the one confronted with an overreaching sighted person who\u2019s just actually just doing what they think is best. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and I think there\u2019s no, often very, like, there\u2019s often good intention there, but to a certain degree the good intention is irrelevant, particularly if you don\u2019t really understand the world from the perspective of that blind person, and you might inadvertently be causing them more harm or danger than if you hadn\u2019t, quote, helped them or tried to offer the intervention that you thought was the most appropriate. I mean, that\u2019s happened to me on many occasions, and it\u2019s really really hard to navigate those situations, because on the one hand you understand that the lack of ill intention or the good intention of the person, but at the same time you\u2019re in this sort of fight or flight state of like, you know that whatever they\u2019re doing is putting you in harm\u2019s way more than helping you. And I think this is also a part of just general, you know, how people should interact with sort of this framework of empathy, of I\u2019m not in someone else\u2019s shoes, but I should try to figure out what it is like to be in their shoes and I think learning about disability is a really good strong framework for cultivating that sort of empathy, cultivating that sort of creativity, and then also my hope would be as more stories of disabled people and blind people, etc., come into public discourse, that we\u2019ll also start to see more blind people in these professions, you know, another area that I\u2019ve talked a lot about on my podcast and in being interviewed for other podcasts is healthcare. We really need more disabled people as healthcare providers, because they are going to approach the care in an inherently different way than a non-disabled person, and I think that could be really beneficial to the healthcare system in general, which tends to be pretty ableist, pretty focused on the medical model of disability, and not really always sort of providing the highest level of care to disabled people. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
The word \u201cableism\u201d seems to have surfaced over the last couple years, and really this year it\u2019s really come to light. Can you define, in your own words, what ableism is?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Sure, and there\u2019s some really good definitions if you search on the internet for, you know, what is ableism. One of the ones that I really like is from the Chicago Center for Independent Living, and just paraphrasing, essentially what ableism means is the belief that disabled people or people with disabilities are lesser than or devalued as compared to people with typical abilities. So I mean, broadly speaking, that\u2019s sort of what ableism refers to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
Yeah. Because inclusion has come to light, and ableism, and everyone once in a while these words come up, but I think ableism, for anybody who didn\u2019t know really or has been wondering, it really answers a lot of questions, age-old questions from 10, 20 years ago when I first lost my sight, what this was, what this need to help me or see me do something that is different to them so they think I\u2019m doing it wrong, or you know, we\u2019re just doing things differently, so I\u2019m glad that word has surfaced, it gives people a conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Yeah, I think that was also something that was really helpful for me, particularly in the last few years of my life, which is, to start to have a vocabulary to talk about experiences that I\u2019ve had in my life that I knew were like, not great or icky or I couldn\u2019t identify what was problematic about them, but know I have a vocabulary and a way of talking about it and a way of understanding it, and then therefore I feel like I also, because I have that vocabulary now, I have a way of responding to it in a way that is healthy, also respectful of other people, but clear in terms of like the message I\u2019m sending to the people around me. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And I think, you know, because of your podcast, the things you talk about, and there\u2019s others out there too, but the conversation has started. It\u2019s welcomed elsewhere, it\u2019s bringing awareness to it, and I think that\u2019s how we make some of these changes, I brought up how we bridge that gap. It\u2019s a long distance to go, and there\u2019s a lot of people to hit upon, but I think it\u2019s a great start, so thanks for Down to the Struts and doing what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and thank you for doing what you\u2019re doing, and I know a lot of young people are listening out there, and I hope you hear this and you feel encouraged and you feel hopeful, as you should. It\u2019s a big hill to climb, as we\u2019ve both been saying, but I think that there\u2019s a lot of hope, in that, you know, you guys are here and you\u2019re listening to this podcast and you\u2019re learning from different blind people and building up your community, and I hope you all feel empowered to advocate for yourselves and for your communities, and recognize that your disability is a really important powerful part of yourself that you know, you should honor and be proud of.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
That\u2019s really great. You talk about changes, it hasn\u2019t always been this way, the playground that we\u2019re all in today, the sandbox that we\u2019re all playing in today, it was different, quite different, but when you were younger, you got away with not really being blind, you had eyesight problems, but growing up, who was your big advocate, were your parents your best advocates?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I grew up in a South Asian family, so my parents immigrated to the US from India in the \u201870s. Of course, they were navigating a lot of cultural challenges, I think ableism is something that permeates across a lot of cultures, American culture and other cultures as well, and every culture kind of thinks about disability in a different way, and so they were kind of grappling with that, but that being said, my mother was a very assertive and resourceful person, and she was very quick to make sure that I had access to services, despite whatever, whether she was able to articulate that I had a disability or all of that, but regardless of that, she was very focused on making sure I had appropriate services, that I had access to assistive technology, that I received mobility training with a cane, so she was very proactive in that sense, and I think when the incident happened with the LSAT, my mom, you know, she was there and she witnessed it all, and she saw how horrible it was, and she, you know, she insisted, she said you have to call someone, you have to talk to someone, you have to do something, you can\u2019t take this exam this way, this isn\u2019t fair, and even though she, again, didn\u2019t have the vocabulary, of like, oh, this is an ADA violation or something like that, she understood in her gut that this was wrong, and I think for me, I was really wrapped up in the time in I have to well on the LSAT, I have to get into a good law school, like, I have to be a high-achieving student, and so I was just sort of like, I just need to press forward and deal with whatever to accomplish that. I wasn\u2019t ready to sort of hear my mom at that time, I think, and I wasn\u2019t emotionally there, but I think that her sense of injustice really sort of stayed with me, and I remembered that, and I remembered her reaction to that whole experience of taking this exam without the appropriate accommodations and really not succeeding very well. I think that in my subconscious at the time, that sense of outrage at the injustice really did stay with me, and I feel that even though I didn\u2019t sort of take her advice at the time, there was an element of advocacy that I learned from her, that I took into other experiences, and later in my life I was ready to kind of stand up to the injustice and take action and advocate for myself, so yeah, I think my parents, especially my mother, played, you know, a pretty significant role in that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And the LSAT situation was when they didn\u2019t allow you to use accommodations that you now needed but you didn\u2019t show in the past.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Correct, and subsequently, there was actually a lawsuit on this very issue that was won by someone a couple of years ago, and so they\u2019ve actually changed the exam to make it-<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mm-hm, we had her on the show, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
-to make it more accessible. I remember like 10 or 15 people texting me the day that that lawsuit was decided and being like, oh my god! And you know, I said yes, this person is me, and I am them, I had the same exact experience, and I\u2019m so grateful to them for taking that brave step of not standing for the injustice and taking action, and I\u2019m really glad that somebody did that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What was it like in high school, going along, and then as you transitioned to college, did you worry about anything at that point? Like your disability interfering with your ability to learn?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
In terms of my ability to learn, I was really fortunate in my schooling, aside from the standardized tests, I always, you know, received appropriate accommodations and I didn\u2019t really encounter, I had very good relationships with my professors. I had a really great disability office when I went to college, so that was actually something I was looking at. So when I would go and visit schools, you know, when I was a junior, senior in high school, I always asked do you have an office of disability services? If so, can I please speak to the person that runs that office, and some schools didn\u2019t even have that office, and so that was a very big red flag for me when I was looking at colleges, and then the college that I went to, Barnard College, I remember when I was deciding between that and another school, I spoke in detail to the director of the office of disability services there, and I felt so good about everything she was saying, and one of the things that was really beneficial to me was she said that our philosophy is that we have a philosophy of empowerment. We\u2019re not gonna go call up every professor for you every semester to tell them that you need xyz accommodations, we want to empower you to take that step, and we\u2019ll support you all along the way, but we want you to be the agent of your own experience here, and I really appreciated that, and so every semester I would email my professors, I had a plan, we would determine what was going on in the syllabus, what I might need, what the testing situation would be like, and so I felt really supported, so for those of you who are college-bound, that\u2019s something I would definitely look into is, does the school have an office of disability services or some similar office, who are the people in there, make sure you talk to them as you\u2019re looking at different places to go to school, make sure that you feel confident that they\u2019re gonna provide you with the support that you need, so I think that\u2019s something that was really helpful to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think you really stress a great point, and I\u2019m glad they brought that to your attention, the empowerment part, that you are responsible, you do this, because you can\u2019t take them with you when you go to the job site, they\u2019re not coming with to help you later on. So you\u2019ve gotta wean yourself off of them a little bit, but that- yeah, empowerment. I like that. I like that. When you went to law school, for your senior year, that\u2019s when you really started to lose your eyesight, and so what was that like, not challenging enough, I know you adjusted and you succeeded, but what was it like mentally, socially, was it a turning point?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It was really tough. When I was at that stage, I really wasn\u2019t in the place, not even close to the place that I am now in terms of using the white cane, and being, you know, feeling confident about my blindness skills, and feeling just comfortable with my blindness, and I counted myself out of a lot of things socially, so if stuff happened at night I would say no, or if I wasn\u2019t confident about how to get somewhere I wouldn\u2019t go, and the other thing that was really hard in law school was I had to completely change my learning style, because I always learned from visual learning, from reading and etc., and that was just not an option, and I was watching my grades kind of plummet, and I had always been- academic performance had been something, like I really clung to, because I didn\u2019t have a robust social life, so school was really important to me, and so the feeling that I was failing in this area of my life that was so central to me was really, really tough, but I worked through that in my first year of law school, and I learned how to learn by listening, and that was really transformative, I was like oh, wow, this is so much more efficient, and so much easier, and then I saw, like, this huge sea change in my grades from my first year of law school to my second year of law school, and it was really affirming, because I had though oh, am I just not smart anymore, but I realized it\u2019s not that, I didn\u2019t have the tools that I needed to continue on the pathway of higher education that I needed, and so once I realized that, that was also really helpful, because I realized oh, it\u2019s not me, I just didn\u2019t have the right stuff, I didn\u2019t have the right technology, and now I do, and I\u2019m seeing a change in my performance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How about when you were probably applying for work and stuff, was that challenging to- well, you\u2019re visually impaired, and you have to go into a place for the first time, what was that like?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
It was challenging. At first, when I was in law school, I had decided I wanted to do immigration policy, but a lot of the policy experts I talked to said, you know, we really think it\u2019s important for you to try to practice immigration law for at least a year or so, you can\u2019t really dig into the policy issues until you understand how people navigating the system experience the system. So I thought that made sense, and so I was able to get a postgraduate fellowship and work at a nonprofit organization representing immigrants. It was- I always knew I didn\u2019t want to be a traditional courtroom lawyer, I wasn\u2019t really interested in trial lawyering, it just wasn\u2019t for me, I\u2019m a policy person, and I kind of knew that, so that was there, but also, it was just really hard. Immigration at the time? You have to complete a lot of forms for people, and the forms are not usually- either they\u2019re printed or their online but they\u2019re not really very accessible, I wasn\u2019t a JAWS user yet, so that was another thing, and it was really difficult, and it was really difficult working with clients where often I was working with either Urdu-speaking or Spanish-speaking clients, you know, not operating in my, I\u2019m a heritage speaker of Urdu and I\u2019m quite proficient in Spanish, but they\u2019re not my first language, right? And so having to navigate my disability and work across cultural competencies was really really hard, and also I felt that the attorneys around me weren\u2019t being accommodating either, and so I was kind of in this like really difficult situation, and again, I didn\u2019t know what I didn\u2019t know in terms of what I could advocate for myself in the workplace, especially when you\u2019re working in legal services, you know, your central focus is your client, and not you, and so it was very hard, and it confirmed for me that I didn\u2019t want to practice immigration law, but I did do it for a year and then I went to a policy organization, which was much better in terms of the pace and the kind of work, and it just was a better fit for me, and also I felt like a better fit for where I was with my blindness skills, but I still experienced a lot of sort of discrimination, lack of understanding, working with people who really don\u2019t know anything about working with a disabled colleague. I mean, it was really difficult, but I learned a lot from it, and I\u2019ve brought those learnings into my new jobs, and I\u2019ve been a lot more assertive in what I need and how people can support me, and I find that when I\u2019m clear, everyone else is more comfortable, so when you\u2019re able to say, hey, I can do this, here\u2019s what I need, and you can kind of engage in that kind of negotiation with your employer, it\u2019s a lot smoother because you\u2019re operating from a position of power, because you\u2019re very clear about what it is that you need to succeed, and you\u2019re very clear on the fact that you can actually do the job. I think that\u2019s something you learn over time, also it\u2019s definitely different from when you\u2019re more junior versus when you\u2019re more senior in your career, which is where I am now, so I feel like I am in more of a position of like, people are usually hiring me because I have the expertise they need, I\u2019ve been working, I\u2019ve been a lawyer for more than 10 years, so that definitely helps, but if you go into a job, even if you\u2019re junior, and you are just very, you know, you really try to figure out what you need and you ask for it in a way that is professional, but also assertive, I think that is really helpful. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
It just didn\u2019t come overnight, you had to go through this process to get to where you are today. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Definitely, yeah. I think it\u2019s a learning curve, as are so many things in life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that\u2019s what some people misunderstand about blindness and blindness training. If they lost eyesight later on, they go to a training center, they\u2019re gonna come out as a superperson, the super-blind, and have all these skills and the world\u2019s gonna accept them, but I think it\u2019s some hard knocks, and some experience, I think experience is the best teacher, and as you go you learn the power that you have within you to advocate for yourself, and to challenge either authority, systems, or even workplaces.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Oh, yes, absolutely. I have gained some of the greatest wisdom and learned some of the most powerful lessons from some of my biggest mistakes, so don\u2019t be afraid to make mistakes. It\u2019s part of growing and learning, and it\u2019s okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
What tools do you use today, what accessibility tools, assistive tools, do you use today for success?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, I\u2019m a JAWS user, I also use voiceover. I am someone who I never learned Braille, actually. When I was younger and I was being assessed for, you know, rehabilitation services, that was never something we talked about, and I wish Braille had been pushed harder, that\u2019s something actually I\u2019m doing some advocacy on here in Washington, D.C. where I live is making sure that there\u2019s early intervention for blind students and visually impaired students to expose them to Braille young. I would still like to learn Braille, it\u2019s on my bucket list, I really recommend it, everyone I know who knows Braille says it\u2019s the greatest thing they\u2019ve ever done, and it really amplifies your literacy, and I really encourage folks to consider that, even if you\u2019re later on in life, and you know, maybe I\u2019m a bit of a curmudgeon, but I would like to learn Braille one day, and that is a dream that I have, so I definitely think that Braille is key, but thankfully, even though I\u2019m not a Braille user, technology has come so far in terms of voiceover on the iPhone, JAWS, I feel that I\u2019m quite functional with a lot of things because of those text-to-voice technologies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Speaking of Braille, someone that I know is very big on Braille whispered on my shoulder that you\u2019re also a runner and a tandem bike rider, that\u2019d be Laura Wolk from D.C. Yeah, that was surprising, I got this little message from her, and she goes, oh! And she ran the New York City Marathon! So you like running?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I do, I do, I\u2019ve been running since I was 11, when I used to run independently for a long time, and then I moved to D.C., and that was gonna be really hard, so I discovered this amazing organization called Achilles International. I now sit on the board of their D.C. chapter, and they have chapters all over the world and in many US cities, and if you live in a place without an Achilles chapter and you like to run, you should start one, and you can get in touch with me and I can explain how to do that. So it\u2019s a group that matches disabled runners, hand cyclists, blind runners, all sorts of people with developmental disabilities with guides. So Jeff just mentioned my running the New York City Marathon, I ran that with two guides, and I use a tether for running, and then as Jeff mentioned, I also do tandem cycling, which is so fun, it\u2019s super super fun, and there\u2019s a group I\u2019m involved with here in D.C., if you live in this area, it\u2019s called the Metro Washington Association of Blind Athletes, and we do tandem cycling, hiking, kickball, goalball, which I imagine you\u2019ve talked about in past episodes, Jeff, which is specifically a blind sport, which I unfortunately am really bad at, but is really fun, so yeah, I think adaptive sports are wonderful, and I encourage folks to get involved in them if they\u2019re interested in sports, and if you feel like, oh my gosh, I can\u2019t run anymore, I\u2019m losing my sight, or you know, I can\u2019t bike anymore, I\u2019m losing my vision, there are adaptive options for you, and honestly they\u2019re just really fun and give you a really great sense of community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
Oh, I think that community part of it is great, I joined blind hockey, and it\u2019s the people that you meet that, you know, they\u2019ve always been there! But you get involved, and there\u2019s such a great group of people, you know, that are involved in that type of stuff, so it\u2019s not just the sport, it\u2019s the people there, and it\u2019s not centered on blindness, it\u2019s centered on the sport. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
Yep! It\u2019s just fun, it\u2019s just fun and good people. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
I just want to say, I love your podcast, I love everything on it \u2013 who is your target audience for Down to the Struts?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:
That\u2019s a great question. My target audience is multifaceted. I like to create content that is by and for disabled people, so I have a lot of disabled guests on my show. The vast majority of them are disabled, so I really want to speak to the disability community, I want to speak to people who are transitioning into the disability community, and I also really want to create an opportunity to educate non-disabled people about disability issues, and why they should care about them, and why the disability lens is a really important, valuable way of looking at the world to make it better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
Well, Qudsiya, thank you so much for taking the time, coming onto Blind Abilities and talking about this. I\u2019ll get your links in the show notes that you put so well in the beginning of the show, and we\u2019ll bring them down and put them in the show notes, so thank you so much and keep up such a good job on what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You too, thank you so much and thanks for creating this podcast, and this space to speak to blind young people, I\u2019m so honored to have been able to speak with you today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:
Alright. Have a good weekend!<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Qudsiya:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You too, talk to you soon! Thank you so much, Jeff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff: [Music] [Transition noise] -When we share<\/p>\n\n\n\n -What we see<\/p>\n\n\n\n -Through each other’s eyes\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n [Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]<\/p>\n\n\n\n …We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If you reside in Minnesota, and you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email<\/a> or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities<\/a> Give us a call and leave us some feedback at 612-367-9063 we would love to hear from you!<\/p>\n\n\n\n Check out the Blind Abilities Community<\/a>on Facebook, the Blind Abilities Page<\/a>, and the Career Resources for the Blind and Visually Impaired<\/a> group<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Full Transcript Jeff: Welcome to Blind Abilities, we got a great conversation coming up here. Qudsiya Naqui, a lawyer, an advocate, fellow podcaster, joined me in the Blind Abilities studio, and I think you\u2019re really gonna like this conversation. We just started out talking, and whoa. It\u2019s a really great conversation, and I\u2019m so glad […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":8,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-6980","page","type-page","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/P6rcRg-1OA","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":5205,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=5205","url_meta":{"origin":6980,"position":0},"title":"BoseFrames are Getting steroids! Putting a Camera on the Bose Frames is the Next Step for the Aira and Bose Partnership. #NFB19","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"July 17, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Jeff Thompson:Welcome to Blind Abilities, I'm Jeff Thompson. Just returned from the National Federation of the Blind conference held in Las Vegas, Nevada. Yes, Sin City. It was a great conference held at the Mandalay Bay. Jeff Thompson:It was a huge, huge hotel, and yet, after day one,\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":4533,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=4533","url_meta":{"origin":6980,"position":1},"title":"Discrimination and Disability Rights: Knowing Your Rights and Receiving the Advocacy That Just May Right the Way For Your Success – Meet Heather Gilbert","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"February 18, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Heather Gilbert:There is a shortage of attorneys representing people with disabilities. Jeff Thompson:Introducing disability rights lawyer, Heather Gilbert. Heather Gilbert:When someone is discriminated against, when they're treated differently than other people, that is very hurtful. Jeff Thompson:Advocate for the United Blind of Minnesota. Heather Gilbert:Because there's that awkward\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5392,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=5392","url_meta":{"origin":6980,"position":2},"title":"Got Money? Download the Free Money Reader Apps, EyeNote App for iOS and the IDEAL Currency Identifier for Android and Apply for the Free iBill Currancy Reader from the Bureau of Engraving.","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"September 8, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Jeff Thompson:Welcome to Blind Abilities. I'm Jeff Thompson. If you ever had that problem of too much money, too much cash, too much stack, and you'd have trouble identifying which bill is which, well, the US Bureau of Engraving has the answer for you. Not one, not two,\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":5211,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=5211","url_meta":{"origin":6980,"position":3},"title":"Getting Two Blind Brothers with One Stone! 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I'm Jeff Thompson. Speaker 3: Okay, so state services actually played a huge part in everything that I'm doing. Speaker 2: Don't be afraid, get out there, meet people, be friendly. Nobody is judging you. Speaker 3: Think big. 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And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com<\/a>, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store, that\u2019s two words, Blind Abilities. And if you want to leave us a message, give us a call, give us some feedback or some suggestions, give us a call at 612-367-6093, that\u2019s 612-367-6093. We\u2019d love to hear from you. And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, to you, your family, and friends, stay well, stay informed, and stay strong. I want to thank you for listening, hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.<\/p>\n\n\n\nContact Your State Services<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Contact:<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com<\/a>
Send us an email<\/a>
Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store<\/a>and Google Play Store<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n