Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think listening to our voices inside of our heads is actually very positive, because that\u2019s how we reflect on ourselves, that\u2019s how we change ourselves, and if we want to change the world, we first have to start changing ourselves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Please welcome human rights activist and accessibility advocate, Itto Outini.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s amazing, how if we give a chance to anyone they can do everything. It\u2019s just a matter of chance and opportunities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
From her journey of less desire\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So when I was 17, my uncle\u2019s wife threw a sharp object into my face, and blinded me. At the time I didn\u2019t know how to read and write, I didn\u2019t even know how to spell my name, I didn\u2019t even know how to count from one to three, nothing. I was thrown on the streets and I became homeless.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u2026and a determination like no other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Someone told me about the blind school, and I started school at the age of 17 for the first time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
For more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, and subscribe to the Blind Abilities podcast. That\u2019s two words, blind abilities, wherever you listen to podcasts. And now, please welcome Itto Outini. We hope you enjoy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Working with the UN does not mean that I am only going to be helping persons with disabilities, but all the issues that the UN covers are the ones that I\u2019ve faced in my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Welcome to Blind Abilities, I\u2019m Jeff Thompson. Today in the studio, we have Itto Outini. She\u2019s a Fulbright scholarship, she\u2019s from Morocco, and she\u2019s now here with her master\u2019s degree and an internship at the United Nations Development Program. Welcome to Blind Abilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Hi everyone, this is Itto Outini, I am totally blind, thank you so much, Jeff, it\u2019s nice to digitally connect, and thank you for reaching out. I hope that sharing my story will motivate and inspire a lot of fellow persons with disabilities, and allies, and other fellow human beings as well. Thank you for the opportunity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Oh, you bet. You know, when I started reading more about your story, I don\u2019t know which layer is more important than the other layer, but you\u2019re a product of all your experience in your lifetime. When you say you\u2019re totally blind, that happened at age 17, and you had never read before, any of that, but now you\u2019ve gone on to university, master\u2019s degree, and you\u2019ve captured a lot of the dreams that you had.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, that is true. I was born and raised in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco, that is North Africa. My mom died when I was little, I don\u2019t know when, I can\u2019t remember, and my father abandoned me and I was raised by my father\u2019s family for the first 12 years of my life, in a very rural area of Morocco, no television, no radio, no books. There was just a very ancient, traditional life, there was no electricity, so sleeping early, waking up early, all the food was produced in the farms, there was no grocery shops, it was literally another part of the world. I\u2019ve heard that it\u2019s changed now, because it\u2019s 20 years ago. I was abused by my own family, when I was little, so my dad\u2019s family at first did not take me to school because there was no school. When I went to my mom\u2019s family, I remember the first time I was put on a bus. I was questioning everything, of course, and I thought that the bus ate grass, because that\u2019s what I saw animals doing, so I thought the object was moving, therefore it has to have something to make it move \u2013 of course, this is true, but I didn\u2019t know what was it, I saw the cows walking, and the bus, you know, walking, according to my understanding at the time, so I only knew that you have to eat to move, so I thought that the bus had to eat too. But I guess it has to eat in its own way, so, you know, just like charging phones, I guess that\u2019s food for them too. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then everything changed at age 17.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes. I stayed with my mom\u2019s family, I thought, you know, when I was coming on a bus for a day or more than a day, I was really excited thinking that things would be different, but unfortunately both of my family\u2019s sides were not loving or caring or nothing, they were abusive and my mom\u2019s family did the same thing. I moved a lot, I didn\u2019t stay in one place even for a month or two, from the day I was born until 17. So when I was 17 my uncle\u2019s wife threw a sharp object into my face and blinded me. At the time I didn\u2019t even know how to read and write, I didn\u2019t even know how to spell my name, I didn\u2019t even know how to count from one to three, nothing. And I was left in a hospital, I was of course thrown on the streets and I became homeless. Someone told me about the blind school, and I went to school and I started school at the age of 17 for the first time, and I started from the 7th<\/sup> grade, so instead of 12 years getting a high school degree, I was able to do it in the span of 6 years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n And you learned other languages as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, I mean, I\u2019m sorry if my English is not good, so it\u2019s my 7th<\/sup>, so I\u2019m still learning-<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff: Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, I used to learn as I go, so sometimes I get started on a word or two, or sometimes I\u2019m like what is this? It\u2019s a blessing and a curse to know many languages, when I get tired I mix them all up, and I make my own words.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s quite funny.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think for me, it was the circumstances that forced me to learn, you know, I had no family, I had no one to support me, I had no shelter, I was homeless, and a blind female in a very- I was a foreigner in my own country. My brain just forced itself to learn things as fast as it could.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Because that was your ticket out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. It\u2019s like a survival mode, it was literally turned on, like I went for days without food, and I was super skinny, and I sometimes got sick, but I literally, my mind neglected my body, and it just was, my brain was pushing harder and harder to make things possible. I\u2019ve accomplished all my dreams, now it\u2019s time to, like, help others and be there for them, and help them realize that they are capable of realizing their dreams too, because again, it\u2019s a lie if I tell someone that I will help you do, like, realize your dream, but I will help you find out how to help yourself, and I think we all are capable no matter what our color, disability, gender, sexuality or race, nationality, every human being is capable of doing something. Like, I\u2019m not able to drive because I\u2019m blind, but I am capable of going somewhere using other means. If we see everything as limitation, then we can believe in what we can do, and just start doing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n So, that devastation, that I would say as being tragic, how did you climb out of that, and how did you start to see the light, if I may say, at the end of the tunnel? What kept your focus on your dreams?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Most of the things were like, I was reading and I remember one time I was reading a book by David Pelzer, his biography, three books in one, like the whole thing, and I literally saw his journey as like, not like me, he grew up in America, but still his mother threw him on the streets when he was four, and how she abused him, and all of that, and at the end he became a lawyer, and that gave me motivation I would say, or like it was an example of someone like myself who actually became what they wanted to be. Then I was reading about the UN and how it has made a huge positive change in the world, and what they do, and I started basically dreaming about working with the UN and also contributing to make the world a better place for a person like myself, and I used to see myself as a victim, I refuse to bow down and believe what society was telling me, like you know, you\u2019re a woman, you\u2019re a person with a disability, I refused all of that, and I took my own fate in my hands, and I started reading and learning, and I was able to survive being six years on the street.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n What was it like when you met the American family in Morocco that helped you to the university?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, it was funny, because I, as I said, I didn\u2019t know much English, so I thought hmm, now I speak English I can communicate with Americans because I knew \u201cwhat\u2019s your name\u201d and \u201chow do you spell it\u201d so I was so happy, but after a few days I was like huh, no, I don\u2019t actually know English, there is more to it than that! They took me to the American Language Center to learn English, and after six months they came to visit me and I was able to have tea and conversation with them and they were so proud. I am still in touch with them, they\u2019re more than family to me. If I were to choose to go through what I had to go through to meet such people and be the person I am today I would. I\u2019m not saying that what I went through is easy, it was not, as a matter of fact, thankfully I don\u2019t have severe health issues, but for example, my eyes, they were damaged for 14 years. I finally had a surgery last year, and I fixed them, I had benign tumors that are the result of the physical trauma that I had to go through, and I had to go under a big surgery, so I am hoping that by sharing my story, not only to inspire people to overcome what they are facing, but also those who are not facing anything to go and support those who are going through hardships that I had to go through, because those scars, even if they\u2019re not emotional or psychological, physical scars are also really difficult to deal with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff: Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff: Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n As I said, it was my dream to come to America when I was homeless, so even when I got an email saying congratulations that you were awarded the Fulbright scholarship to go and study at the University of Arkansas, I didn\u2019t have a computer, so I found in a cyber coffee that I did, and I told my friend and I said, is Arkansas in America or somewhere else? Because I never, like, I never heard of Arkansas, most things that we were studying about American culture was Florida, California, New York, and even Oklahoma, but not Arkansas for some reason, even though they\u2019re neighbor states. But I went to the airport, I still remember that day, with just my cane and penniless, I didn\u2019t have, of course, family, all my cohorts, they were talking about how much money they wanted to bring, is that fine, is the US gonna be not happy with them bringing too much? And for me, even when we went to have a drink outside, I pretended to not want it because I couldn\u2019t pay for it when I was preparing to come here, like I think five days or three days before my departure. When I flew I flew from Casablanca, Morocco to New York, and I had to stay there, I think from one or 12 a.m. until like 7 or 8 a.m. I was so hungry and I was so tired, and I just wanted to stay, I didn\u2019t know people, now I have connections all over the country, but I didn\u2019t know, and at the time I didn\u2019t know how to use technology either, you know, like look up something? Like I didn\u2019t even know what look up something did, because I didn\u2019t use technology in Morocco. I was educated but I didn\u2019t know, like, how to use JAWS or voiceover or nothing, as I do now, I can go anywhere with my technology skills and use them and explore the whole world, but at the time, four years and half ago, in July of 2017, I didn\u2019t have those skills. When I landed in Arkansas, it was my friend using my Facebook, communicating with the group, and I found someone waiting for me at the airport, and he just asked if it was my name, and I said yeah, and I just hopped up in a stranger\u2019s car and here we go, off from XNA airport to Fayetteville, and we were driving and they\u2019re actually like my family now, they visited me just a week ago, they came to visit me here in Missouri. He took me and he was explaining to me, you know, like, on the south there\u2019s this, whatever [unintelligible] this, and I was like everything was foreign to me, including the person himself, you know, a new person. I was not afraid, he told me we are not gonna let you live alone, you should go and stay with me and my wife, and I said no, I made this choice and I am ready to live on my own, in my own apartment and you guys are welcome to visit me anytime, that\u2019s what happened, they dropped me in my apartment, and when sometimes I would go and visit them, they\u2019ve become like family to me now, but I remember the first day, I went out, and I was exploring my area, so being totally blind I didn\u2019t know anything, and the only thing I\u2019d met was my landlord, and his name is Peter, and I went out and I got lost, and I was like okay, now I guess I\u2019ll stay here all night, it was late afternoon, and some people found me and they said, are you okay, and I said no, I\u2019m lost, and they said, where do you live, and I said, in Peter\u2019s apartment. That was all that I knew. Like you know, now like I am really good at knowing like how to navigate America, but before, it was like, okay. In Morocco you just say, and even in Morocco I don\u2019t know anything in Morocco, I can\u2019t speak much for Morocco, because before 17 I was all abused and neglected, and what my family was doing to me, and when I was six years on the street, just homeless, blind, I didn\u2019t know what things are, and when I was at the university with my American family who rented to me an apartment, so I didn\u2019t know, like, the concept of like, apartment 3, 58, this and that, so I just knew Peter, and I told them I lived in Peter\u2019s apartment and it took them a few hours to find where I lived, and someone showed them the apartment and they brought me back, so-<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, I mean, going to a country as a blind person, like as I said before, it\u2019s fine if you don\u2019t get angry or irritated or overwhelmed easily, but if someone is you know, really like afraid or they\u2019re not used to exploring things on their own, it\u2019s a little bit scary, but I have never been scared. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n For the first time being on your own, and wanting to claim your independence, how was it to accommodate to go to classes, and for food and sustenance, how was all that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I was- if independent is like living alone and doing everything on my own, I did the same thing in Morocco, so I have never had a roommate, I\u2019ve always lived on my own. So even in Morocco, when I was in the university, my American family rented an apartment for me, and I lived on my own, and I went to the university on my own, and I walked- actually it was harder in Morocco because the buses are not free and I couldn\u2019t afford, so I had to walk for one hour, one hour and a half to go to the university. At the university in Fayetteville, in America, it was really easy. I was a Fulbright community, which is amazing all over the world. They connected me with paratransit, for persons with disabilities, and I had them on my phone, my host father got me a smartphone and showed me how to save contacts and how to call, if I needed something or also how to call the school, the paratransit, and I scheduled the time, I memorized my way around, like how to go to my classes, and I became friends with my classmates, actually I still have some of my classmates as best friends, and my best friend, she is like a sister to me, she\u2019s my former classmate. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n So that was your first piece of technology, the phone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly, yeah. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n What happened when you got a computer?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, they told me, I didn\u2019t know that actually, the word that they should have used is you\u2019ve got to learn how to type, and they put my hands on the keyboard, and I thought I would find some braille or something, but when I didn\u2019t I was like, my computer doesn\u2019t have numbers and it doesn\u2019t have letters as well, and they said no, it does, and I\u2019m like no, it\u2019s just a bunch of buttons. So I can\u2019t believe that, you know, now I use my computer, I am a public speaker, I do everything independently, I type, I send my emails, I write my articles on my own, and it\u2019s amazing how if we give a chance to anyone they can do everything, it\u2019s just a matter of chance and opportunities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. And now you got your master\u2019s degree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. And hoping to pursue my PhD, I don\u2019t know when, but it\u2019s a plan for the near future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, let\u2019s get on it then, I mean, you\u2019ve been here four and a half years, come on. I\u2019m kidding, I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n [laughs] Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s amazing what you can do, once you start using technology as a blind person. You didn\u2019t even know it existed. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I didn\u2019t, and when I heard about it, it was just a concept, it was just a fairy tale. I never could afford it. As we all know, technology for the blind is very expensive. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m thinking about when you said you used to carry your braille books around in a plastic bag, just so they wouldn\u2019t get wet, and now you can have thousands of books in your iPhone or your computer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. Yeah, yeah, the people who make that happen, you know, like Bookshare and Bard, and Delivery Box and other online platforms that don\u2019t only make books available but also accessible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what\u2019s your favorite piece of technology today?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n All of them. I love my robot, my Amazon Echo, and Google Home. I also like my computer and my iPad. I am not too much into audiovisual, I don\u2019t do any like videogames, but I like all the technology that helps me, my Victor Reader, and yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wow. I can imagine you\u2019ve asked your Google and Amazon devices here and there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Isn\u2019t that something, just to be able to ask a question, I mean yeah, you can do research to see how much of that is true, but I mean, it\u2019s just so handy, just turn to it, ask a question, like I asked what\u2019s the capitol of Morocco just before I came on here. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I mean, not only that, but a lot of people see technology as a negative thing, but I really hope that we can see the positive aspects that technology can have on us, like for me personally, I am really busy, I work a lot, so I\u2019m really grateful to my technology, even like turning my coffee maker on and off, it\u2019s my Amazon Echo could do that, like I can just put everything on and go to do something else while asking it to turn it on, or my thermostat, I could do the same thing, and on and on, there is still a lot of things that we need to have accessible and available, but it\u2019s so amazing what it can do, not only answer questions but also help make life easier and make persons with disabilities be as independent as possible. This didn\u2019t exist before, I always wonder how blind people live or sometimes I would even just think about my ex-life or previous life or whatever, when I didn\u2019t have this. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n You said you first read about the United Nations and now you went through the process for the internship and you got it, you know \u2013 what was that like, to realize that dream?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I don\u2019t know how to define that feeling, because after I graduated, I was sick after my surgery, when they removed the tumors from my hips. I took a few months, like three or four months to recover from that. Then I was training on assistive technology, when I finished I want to be certified, or wanted, as an interpreter, even though it was never my dream, but while I was doing that, one day I received an email from someone saying hey, from the UN actually, saying hey, if you are interested here is this position, go ahead and apply for it. I kind of was looking at the link and it looked real and all of that, but I decided to copy and send it to my friend and ask and say hey, this is weird but is this real? And he\u2019s like yeah, that\u2019s real. I was having a lot of personal project in those three days, I just didn\u2019t really ask and filled out the application and submitted it, and then got another email saying we want to interview you, are you available on this day and this day, and they gave me some dates, and if you need any accessible format or support please let us know, and I did, and when I got started doing the documents and all of that, it took me like, it was a very positive shock, but it took me like a few days or a few weeks to finally like enjoy the dream that is being realized, but in the beginning it was just like oh, this is interesting, like how much I\u2019d dreamt about this and how much I\u2019d talked about it and like as I said, the fact that the director of the blind school told me that you will never go to America, and also when I got the Fulbright, my best friend, I went to her and knocked on her door and she kind of didn\u2019t believe me and she told me to go away, that made me kind of scared of voicing my dreams, and I never like, was very public about oh, I wanted to work with the UN, so it was my dream, and like, I would write it, what I want to do, how I want to help persons with disabilities, and how I want to help, like as you said before, I am a product of all the things I\u2019ve had to experience, so working with the UN does not mean that I am only going to be helping persons with disabilities, but all the issues that the UN covers are the ones that I\u2019ve faced in my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wow. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I read that you also got some training, what was it, in Alphapointe?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Can you tell the listeners what Alphapointe is?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, so Alphapointe is based in Kansas City, Missouri, and this is the training, that\u2019s where I learned assistive technology, so for any blind person around the country or visually impaired person, they can go there and they basically teach blind or visually impaired persons how to use assistive technology, from you know, braille displays and screen readers and magnifications and all of the technology that blind or visually impaired persons will need to be able to do the work they want to do, and they have also a foundation where blind people can work, so they hire blind people. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Ah. Do they also teach life skills and soft skills?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes. I didn\u2019t do that, I mean, I did like for two or three weeks, but I have, as I said before, I\u2019ve been independent, I\u2019ve lived on my own for 16 years now, like as I said, even when I was a child, I had to take care of myself, so life has taught me life skills I guess. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019ve made a statement that you thanked the blindness a little bit, because it would seem like you were robbed of a life that you were living in a sense, but it seems like things were being taken away from you, from your parents to your family to your eyesight, a home, and yet you\u2019ve persevered, you know? I mean, I think that\u2019s how I opened up the conversation, but it\u2019s still astonishing that you still are achieving your dreams, and you talked about being alone. A lot of people can\u2019t handle listening to their voice inside their head too long, but you\u2019ve done it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Again, like, the culture, ideologies have taught us a lot of things, in very wrong ways, because there is a difference, because there is a difference between being alone and being lonely. Like honestly, I loved being alone, but I am not lonely. I have friends all over the world, my friends, I love them and we support each other, then my family, my American family, they\u2019re like my biological family, I mean, it\u2019s just like ideologies that we have, a lot of people would think, you know, a blind person living alone, well yeah, they\u2019re alone but they\u2019re not lonely, and I think listening to our voices inside of our heads is actually very positive, because that\u2019s how we reflect on ourselves, that\u2019s how we change ourselves, and if we want to change the world, we first have to start changing ourselves, because we can\u2019t just say, you know, point our fingers on what\u2019s wrong and not sit down and try to see how we can change ourselves, how we can make ourselves better citizens of the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Mm-hm. It just seems like so many people want to be on social media, be on this that and the other thing, so they don\u2019t have to hear that voice inside their head as much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m glad you have that attitude and you\u2019re sharing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n When I say I am a voice for the voiceless, I really hope I can find a term that better describes what I do, and what I want to do. I want to actually help people realize that we humans all have something in common. It\u2019s not that someone is only blind or someone is only from that country or this country, but we all have a lot in common. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto, you\u2019ve achieved a lot, and you told me you\u2019re in the process of writing a biography.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes. Actually, I am just now in the process of editing and then I will look for agents and publishers and you know, all of that publishing world, it\u2019s now, because like as I said, my first two years I was working on my master\u2019s degree, my third year I was mostly in the hospitals, because of the benign tumors that I had, and my fourth year was my eye surgeries, I had to also have multiple eye surgeries to fix my eyes and remove the remaining and put a graft, so that they can- I have a prosthetic eyes, so that took a while. Then I did assistive technology, and now I am doing my internship with the United Nations Development program, and looking for whether a PhD or just a job for a while before going for a PhD, so I have accomplished a lot, and I\u2019m still going, like as I said before, it\u2019s impossible to learn everything, so there is a lot to learn, no matter how I learn there is still a lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff: Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the refugee congress is a non-partisan organization, and it\u2019s led by refugees and immigrants and asylees, or asylum seekers, and I was a delegate representing Arkansas, but right now I am in Missouri so I am an honorary delegate, and basically it\u2019s an organization that advocates for refugees and asylum and their rights in the United States, yeah. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n You also founded and you\u2019re the president of the Fulbrighters With Disabilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, that\u2019s also one of the things that are very dear to my heart, because when I was applying to the Fulbright scholarship, I didn\u2019t have anyone to tell me what piece of technology I needed to not struggle during grad school, what are the resources that are available in America and how to access them, and all of that experiences, that\u2019s how I decided to found the chapter of the Fulbright With Disabilities. It\u2019s a virtual and international chapter that advocates for scholars with disabilities, Fulbrighters or non-Fulbrighters, because there is a need. It\u2019s the first of its kind, and there is a higher need on that, just, you know, someone proof-reading someone\u2019s research paper, or someone\u2019s college application, and helping someone with their scholarship essay, and all of that, that\u2019s what Fulbrighters With Disabilities chapter is doing for persons with disabilities around the globe. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Was it easy to sit down and think about your life, your journey, to start your biography?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n It is, because like as I said, the fact that I have been able to accomplish a lot of my dreams, if not all of them, and the fact that I survived it gives me a lot of strength and hope that by sharing it, by making it available out there to the whole world, that\u2019s how I will change the world. So yes, it is fine for me to- I speak all over the world, and I share, and I love when people ask me whatever questions they have, I\u2019m never offended or disappointed or say like, I wouldn\u2019t want to be asked on this or that. If my story\u2019s going to help someone else, I am happy to share it, and personally it does not affect me to think about my past at all, it\u2019s just part of me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I can only imagine the first time that you felt the braille and realized those are letters and words coming at you, and it was giving you access, I mean, you talked about how you didn\u2019t really have a lot of electricity, and technology at all, but those braille words jumped out at you, and actually that was your window into the world out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, actually, that was on a Wednesday, so on Thursday I had other classes- well, I didn\u2019t have braille classes, it was my classmate who taught me, because I was in the 7th<\/sup> grade, and braille is being taught from the 1st<\/sup> to the 4th<\/sup> grade. It was not the school\u2019s responsibility to teach me braille, and I remember I learned the alphabet and everything on the first day, then over the weekend I learned how to read, and I remember I went to my Arabic teacher and I said, I know how to read, and he said, no, that\u2019s impossible, and I said well, yeah, I think I do, and that was actually one of the reasons I decided to not believe what other people tell me, whether I could do things or not, so he asked me to grab my classmate\u2019s notebook, and I grabbed it and I read it, and what I read didn\u2019t make sense, and he was really mad and he said, you\u2019re making up that, and I said no I am not, and he said bring it here, and if that didn\u2019t make sense, if what you said is true, then that\u2019s fine, but if it didn\u2019t make sense, I will kick you out of this school, and I was so scared because it was an opportunity for me to go to school, and I was like I think I\u2019m screwed here, and he asked me to bring it and stand next to him, and I brought it and he read it, and then he was angry at my classmate because he wrote something that grammatically and syntactically and semantically, it made no sense. So in the beginning, the teacher thought it was my fault, but at the end it\u2019s actually my classmate who didn\u2019t know how to write complete sentences, and that teacher, he still is my friend now, I mean I had to go through a lot and face in Morocco, like face a lot of things like that where someone would say no, you can\u2019t do it, or you don\u2019t know how to do it, and I had to prove them wrong. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n People putting limited expectations upon you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Mm-hm. And I think upon everybody who is different, like from a certain country or a person with a certain disability, like when someone sees a person with a disability they think they can\u2019t do things, and that just has to change, because that\u2019s not true. Maybe they can\u2019t do things if they\u2019ve never been taught how to do them, and that applies to everyone, whether you\u2019re disabled or not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Goes back to what you said about giving chance and opportunity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, like in that one interview you said it\u2019s not because someone is a certain race or a certain color, or that they have certain beliefs, that everyone anywhere can be the same or different than anybody else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly, yeah, those ideologies that are being taught over and over through different mediums like, whether parents, institutions or sometimes media, they do a lot of psychological change, they are really good at manipulating people\u2019s way of thinking, what people believe, how people treat each other, and I think we have to go beyond what we can see or hear or think of, because if we think about disabilities, like a person with disabilities like myself who is totally blind, of course I was able to see before 17, so I know things, but even someone who is born blind, they still are being taught those concepts, and I think it\u2019s time to overcome that and just think about humanity, and just focus more on togetherness and what makes us unique and we have to embrace differences and not think about that as something bad, but actually it\u2019s something good, because that\u2019s how we learn from each other. If we are all the same, then there\u2019s nothing to learn.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff: Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think my advice is just believe in themselves, and it\u2019s fine to struggle, because- it\u2019s not good, it\u2019s not great, like I\u2019m not saying that someone going through a lot is a good thing, but it\u2019s a part of life, if it happens to someone it\u2019s not fun at the time, like you know, experiencing emotional or physical pain, but if they just allow emotion to be, you know, the emotions are like weather. If they allow them to just be what they are in the moment, they would be able to overcome that just by accepting life and reality as it is, because if we try to avoid pain, that\u2019s how we make actually our lives more painful or worse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n What\u2019s the name of your autobiography?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Blindness is the Light of my Life.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m looking forward to that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto, I just want to thank you so much for sharing and being so upfront with everything, it\u2019s quite a journey, it\u2019s your journey, and I\u2019m looking forward to your book coming out, it\u2019d be great to read it, it\u2019s on my list.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Itto:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Thank you, appreciate it, and thank you for the opportunity and thank you for hosting me on this show. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff:<\/p>\n\n\n\n What a journey, a journey like no other. Be sure to check out her website, Itto Outini, that\u2019s i-t-t-o-o-u-t-i-n-i, dot com. A big shout-out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music, you can follow Chee Chau on Twitter @lcheechau. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store, that\u2019s two words, Blind Abilities. And if you want to leave some feedback, give us some suggestions, give us a call at 612-367-6093. We\u2019d love to hear from you. And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, through these challenging times, stay well, stay informed, and stay strong. I want to thank you for listening, and until next time, bye-bye. <\/p>\n\n\n\n [Music] [Transition noise] -When we share<\/p>\n\n\n\n -What we see<\/p>\n\n\n\n -Through each other’s eyes\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n [Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]<\/p>\n\n\n\n …We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If you reside in Minnesota, and you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email<\/a> or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities<\/a> Give us a call and leave us some feedback at 612-367-6093 we would love to hear from you!<\/p>\n\n\n\n Check out the Blind Abilities Community<\/a>on Facebook, the Blind Abilities Page<\/a>, and the Career Resources for the Blind and Visually Impaired<\/a> group<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Full Transcript Itto: I think listening to our voices inside of our heads is actually very positive, because that\u2019s how we reflect on ourselves, that\u2019s how we change ourselves, and if we want to change the world, we first have to start changing ourselves. Jeff: Please welcome human rights activist and accessibility advocate, Itto Outini. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":7118,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-7135","page","type-page","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/P6rcRg-1R5","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":8619,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=8619","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":0},"title":"Defending Disability Rights: The Threat to Section 504 and Why It Matters","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"March 16, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Podcast Audio Page Podcast Summary This podcast episode highlights the alarming legal challenge to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, a foundational disability rights law in the United States. Kaleigh Brendle, a student advocate, explains that 17 attorneys general have filed a lawsuit arguing that Section 504 is\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":6580,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=6580","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":1},"title":"How a Journey Through Vision Loss Prepared Laura Allen to Become Head of Strategy for Accessibility and Disability Inclusion at Google","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"March 7, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcription Laura Allen: -where now I spend really all of my time on sort of cross-organizational strategy and working on helping to bring alignment and understanding across the different teams working on accessibility, and on disability inclusion. Jeff Thompson: Please welcome Laura Allen. Laura: I happen to be low\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":7282,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=7282","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":2},"title":"American Foundation for the Blind\u2019s Workplace Technology Survey:\u00a0A Survey on\u00a0\u00a0the Workplace Technology Barriers Faced by Blind and Low Vision Individuals","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"April 6, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Jeff:\u00a0The American Foundation for the Blind AFB started a workplace technology study back in 2020 and then conducted a survey, the Workplace Technology Survey that was completed this year and today, April six, 2022, designated as Assistive Technology Awareness Day. How fitting to have Ariel Silverman, research specialist\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":6339,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=6339","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":3},"title":"Tech Has the Power to Change Lives, Especially People with Disabilities \u2013 Meet Kiran Kaja: Google’s Accessibility Lead for Search, Assistant and News","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"November 12, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Kiran: I lead the accessibility program for search, assistant and news products at Google. With my team\u2019s help, we make sure that people with disabilities are able to use these products effectively. Jeff: Please welcome Google\u2019s accessibility lead, Kiran Kaja. Kiran: I\u2019m originally from India. They did not\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"BlindAbilities Logo A black square with white initials, B A.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blindabilities.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/Blind-Abilities-Logo.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":4760,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=4760","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":4},"title":"CSUNATC19: IBM – Inventing Technology that is More human, empathetic and Adaptive to Everyone\u2019s Age and Ability","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"March 19, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcription Jeff Thompson:Welcome to blind abilities. I'm Jeff Thompson, and welcome to our CSUN coverage sponsored by Be My Eyes. Speaker 2:\u00a0 If you're blind or have low vision, Speaker 3:\u00a0 Be My Eyes is a must have tool. Speaker 2:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No matter where you are Speaker 4: Or\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4533,"url":"https:\/\/blindabilities.com\/?page_id=4533","url_meta":{"origin":7135,"position":5},"title":"Discrimination and Disability Rights: Knowing Your Rights and Receiving the Advocacy That Just May Right the Way For Your Success – Meet Heather Gilbert","author":"Blind Abilities Team","date":"February 18, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Full Transcript Heather Gilbert:There is a shortage of attorneys representing people with disabilities. Jeff Thompson:Introducing disability rights lawyer, Heather Gilbert. Heather Gilbert:When someone is discriminated against, when they're treated differently than other people, that is very hurtful. Jeff Thompson:Advocate for the United Blind of Minnesota. 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7th<\/sup>? Whoa, whoa, whoa. 7th<\/sup> language? Wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Oh, I bet. Dropping into America, Arkansas I believe it was?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You land in another world, basically. What was that experience like?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Tell me about the refugee congress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I don\u2019t even think I have to ask the question because everything you\u2019ve said is advice for someone who wants to chase down and achieve their dreams.<\/p>\n\n\n\nContact Your State Services<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Contact:<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com<\/a>
Send us an email<\/a>
Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store<\/a>and Google Play Store<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n