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Podcast Summary:
Sarlie Drakos is a Disability Employment Coach helping people around the world reach their employment goals. Not just finding them any job, but teaching them how they can pursue their dream job.
Sarlie has experienced losing a job through sight loss, and the limited expectations people around her put onto her resulted in her becoming a passionate advocate for people with disabilities and fighting harder to better her situation. Since losing her vision, Sarlie has successfully landed a job as a rock climbing instructor, copywriter, and disability employment consultant. She then continued to enhance her skills to start her own company coaching others with disabilities. Sarlie draws from her experience to fulfill her passion to coach people how to strengthen their resumes, explore careers, conduct mock job interviews and increase their odds in landing the job they want. Through well planned modules and workshops the positive feedback and results are keeping Sarlie motivated and doing her dream job while helping others reach theirs.
Join Sarlie Drakos and Jeff Thompson in the Blind Abilities Studio to learn more about what Sarlie does and offers through the services she provides. You can find out all the details on Sarlie’s web site at SarlieDrakos.com and inquire how she can help you land that dream job. Book in a call today!
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Full Transcript
Sarlie
If you don’t even have the right skills to be able to communicate and advocate for yourself, then there’s a very high likelihood that the employer’s just gonna completely disregard your application.
Jeff:
Please welcome Sarlie Drakos.
Sarlie
So resumes are still very important, I think a lot of people don’t realize exactly how important it is.
Jeff:
Disability employment coach.
Sarlie:
Try and work on your job readiness skills, so things like learning how to touch-type, working on your orientation and mobility skills, just trying to build your independence.
Jeff:
Teaching around the world from life’s experiences.
Sarlie:
Just head onto my website, sarliedrakos.com, which is s-a-r-l-i-e-d-r-a-k-o-s.com.
Jeff:
Now here’s Sarlie Drakos. Hope you enjoy.
Sarlie:
When I first lost my vision, a lot of different employment agencies were just trying to push me into doing any type of job.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities, I’m Jeff Thompson. Today we’re going to travel halfway around the globe, we’re going to Australia. We have a disabilities employment coach with us; Sarlie Drakos. Sarlie, welcome to Blind Abilities.
Sarlie:
Thank you so much for having me!
Jeff:
Well, Sarlie, thank you so much for taking the time to come onto Blind Abilities. Could you tell our listeners, what is a disabilities employment coach?
Sarlie:
So, for me, I work virtually, so I run my business online, and I support people with disabilities to help them get jobs that they love, so we run through all different things, we help people understand what type of career would be best for them based on their different sets of skills, their educations, and their interests. We go through all different recruitment skills, like cover letters, resumes, all that sort of stuff, and then for me, because I’m a disabilities employment coach, I also help people with the self-advocacy side of things, so how to talk to an employer about your disability, when’s the right time to do this, also all the different types of adjustments you can get at the workplace as well, so we go through from the very start to the very finish when it comes to finding a job through that whole entire journey together.
Jeff:
So Sarlie, let’s unpack this a little bit. Can you tell the listeners why self-advocacy is so important?
Sarlie:
It’s important because at the moment there’s still a lot of misunderstandings and a lot of lack of education when it comes to disabilities, so when it comes to employment specifically, if you’re speaking to an employer, the chances are they might not have hired someone with your condition before, or even met someone with your condition before, so if you don’t have the right skills to be able to communicate and advocate for yourself, then there’s a very high likelihood that the employer is just gonna completely disregard your application, not necessarily because they’re trying to be discriminatory towards you, but just because they don’t understand exactly how you’d be able to do the job and why you’re an asset, so it’s really important to be able to communicate and have that conversation clearly and effectively with an employer.
Jeff:
I think one of the biggest questions that comes up is do you disclose before your interview or do you disclose at the interview?
Sarlie:
So, that would all depend on what your condition is. If you don’t need any reasonable adjustments for the interview, for example, if you don’t need an interpreter or anything like that, then I usually say to disclose at the end of the interview, so go through the entire interview and then at the very end they’ll ask you if you have any questions, and I always say ask two to three questions which are well-thought questions about the company, and then after you’ve done that, then at the very end that’s when I would disclose that you have a disability. However, if you do go to an interview and you have a very visible disability, for example, if you’re blind and you use a long white cane or you have a guide dog, then I would disclose after you’ve been offered the interview, so if you get a phone call or an email, lock in the date and time for the interview and then that’s when I’d have that conversation, so it really depends on your situation and what you feel comfortable with, and I work on how to build a really strong disclosure statement, so how to have that conversation with an employer and we workshop that a fair bit because it’s so important to have the right things to say, what not to say, that kind of thing, because it’s a bit of an art form and I think that’s something that people don’t really think about either, it’s not something that I would ever suggest a client just have a conversation with an employer without us going through the dos and don’ts and the ins and out of that conversation because there is a bit to consider.
Jeff:
When you meet someone or someone contacts you, on your first intake, let me say? Walk us through that, what is that like?
Sarlie:
That’s typically me just trying to understand where the client’s at, what their level of experience is, what they’re wanting to do in terms of a career, and just for me to get an understanding of what their main barriers are. For me it’s just a lot of talk about what their goals are and what their barriers are, and then we’ll go through and set a roadmap or a plan of what we would work through together. So it is very individualized, each conversation I have with a person. The coaching program, it does have set modules that we’ll work through together, but then that’ll all be tailored towards the client and their needs as well.
Jeff:
What is the importance of a resume?
Sarlie:
So resumes are still very important, I think a lot of people don’t realize exactly how important it is, but a lot of employers will get thousands or maybe hundreds of resumes per job application, so I’m not sure if I explained that very well, but if you’re applying for a job you might be competing against thousands of other people. So recruiters and employers are very choosy, and they don’t have much time to spend looking at each resume. They typically only spend about six seconds on each resume, so that’s why it’s really really important that you have a great resume that’s able to stand out from the crowd. Also with resumes, one thing that a lot of people don’t know is in a lot of big companies and organizations, they use something called applicant tracking software, so what that does is it will scan your resume and look for keywords, so that’s why it’s also really important to have a really good resume that’s tailored for a particular position or industry.
Jeff:
That’s really cool. Applicant tracking system.
Sarlie:
ATS. Yeah.
Jeff:
Cool. Here’s an example for podcasting. During the publishing process, there’s an edit box where we can employ keywords, and these are all the keywords that would grab the attention of the listeners, especially if you’re doing a search through Google. And similar to putting a hashtag in a tweet, Apple Podcasts does not use this isolated area where you can put in keywords, what they do is the same thing you just mentioned about the resume. They search the entire show notes of a podcast, and that’s how they pull out the keywords. This is exactly what you want that ATS machine to be doing on your resume, and that’s why it’s so important, like you said, one should have significant keywords slathered all over their resume, because without those keywords, your resume may not even get past the first glance.
Sarlie:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you want to have as many keywords as you can, and I think a lot of people often feel intimidated by the idea of tailoring their resume or their cover letter to each job they’re applying for, but the thing is you really need to spend that time tailoring it, because it will significantly increase your chances of it being seen. If you don’t do this, then it won’t even make it past the applicant tracking systems and it won’t be seen by a person, and at the end of the day it doesn’t have to take a really long time, you just- like you said, you need to copy and paste particular keywords and slot it into your resume, and if you’re applying for the same types of jobs over and over again then often they’ll have the same keywords, so it doesn’t really end up taking too long once you spend that initial time doing it for the first job that you’re applying for.
Jeff:
Just make it fit.
Sarlie:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
That’s really cool. Sarlie, I really love your energy and the service you’re providing, this information that you’re giving us, is really a great resource, ‘cause with the struggles and challenges of searching for employment as someone with a disability, it’s really challenging, and yet there possibly could be a little silver lining to this pandemic, of people going virtual, working from home. I think it’s really opened up the doors just a little bit for people with disabilities.
Sarlie:
Yeah, definitely. I think that’s the one good thing about the COVID pandemic is we saw a lot more jobs which are remote-based, which really helps people who are parents or people with disabilities, or people who are carers. It forced companies to become a lot more flexible when it comes to staff, so now when we’re having that conversation with employers and discussing reasonable adjustments, it’s not seen as being something that’s far from the norm anymore. A lot more companies are a lot more flexible in allowing staff to work from home and having that infrastructure set up now, which is really good.
Jeff:
Exactly, yeah. Seen a lot of that lately, and as well as virtual job interviews, which can be done on Zoom, Teams, or on the web.
Sarlie:
Yes, so that’s happening more and more often now, so I speak to a lot of clients who have interviews over Zoom or Microsoft Teams, so usually what I would do is I would do a mock interview with them, just so they can practice, and we can make sure, particularly if they’re blind or have low vision, I would make sure that they’re set up properly so you can see them framed really well in the camera or on the screen, and don’t have anything in the background that’s an issue, but the thing with that is that people need to remember is it’s very different than if you’re speaking face-to-face with someone. A lot of our communication and the messages we get from someone is from nonverbal communication, so it’s really important, I guess, when you’re on a Zoom call or a virtual interview, just to keep that in mind, and I don’t like telling people to smile, but that becomes really important because it’s that much harder for people to get an understanding of who you are as a person and to build that rapport. I guess it’s also a lot easier for clients because they don’t have to travel and worry about all that sort of thing as well. Yeah, my main thing is just to make sure you’re framed really well, and to make sure you have a clean background, and then like I said, just try and have that good body language, and that good energy coming through the screen if you can as well.
Jeff:
How about the typical question that the interviewer may ask the interviewee, what is your greatest weakness?
Sarlie:
Yeah, that’s a question that I always go through with my clients just in case it comes up, it doesn’t always come up, but it still does get asked sometimes. So that type of question I would always recommend talking about something that you’ve actually worked on. For instance, talk about a skill instead of a personality trait, because skills can always be improved on. So a good example could be, one thing that I really struggle with is public speaking, however, I realized that this was an issue for me and so I started going to Toastmasters workshops which happen once a fortnight so I can build on my public speaking skills, so for that example you could see how I mentioned what my weakness was, but then also that I was taking active steps to improve on that skill, and that’s how I would always recommend answering that question. So you’re still acknowledging that it’s a weakness, but you’re showing that you’re actively trying to improve on it.
Jeff:
How can people find out more about Sarlie Drakos, the disability employment coach, and the services you provide?
Sarlie:
Yeah, so I would suggest they head to my website, which is sarliedrakos.com, and there’s a book in a call page, which I can send you the link to as well, and they can just book in a call with me and we can have a chat over Zoom, and I also have the option with captions as well if people are hard of hearing as well, so that’s the best way to go and then I can have a chat with you and we can discuss what your main goals are, what your main barriers are, where you’re at at the moment, and then work out whether I’m the best person to assist you and if you feel like it’s a good fit for you, and if not I’ll recommend you to someone else or refer you to a different organization, but otherwise we can chat about the next steps to help you get your dream job.
Jeff:
Sarlie, I know you’ve thought about having a dream job, and you’re probably living that dream right now, can you tell us what led you to become a disabilities job coach?
Sarlie:
I just fell into it to be honest with you. I have a background working in marketing, so I used to work doing marketing, communications, and advertising, and I did a lot of copywriting, so I used to write a lot of content, websites and blogs and print advertisements, and that sort of thing, but a few years ago I started losing my vision, so I have a condition called Stargardt disease, and I really struggled myself with my work, I was finding it very difficult to complete all my editing work that I was doing, and ended up losing my job as a result of that, and it took me about a year to really come to grips with the different types of support services that were available, because I’d never met anyone with low vision before. I’m the first one in my family to have this condition, so it took me a little while to understand the different support services and everything that are available. Once I did, I went straight back into work again, but it was a really big journey for me because a lot of the messages that I was receiving from my friends and family and people that I had met were that I would never be able to work again because of my vision condition, I would never be able to do the hobbies and all the interests that I enjoyed, and for me I’m quite determined, so I never really let it stop me but it just got me thinking there’s gonna be a lot of people that are being told these messages, there’s gonna be a lot of people that don’t really know how to get jobs, and I’ve spoken to heaps of people who have experienced discrimination at the workplace or have had to deal with other people’s misconceptions when it comes to their abilities, so I really felt like I wanted to help people get the jobs that they wanted to do because we all deserve to have a career that we love, we all deserve to make, you know, good money and not have to have that financial stress, so for me it became a bit of permission for me to use all the skills that I’ve gained through marketing, to learn more about the recruitment sector and then to use all those skills to help other people.
Jeff:
Oh, wow. So the limited expectations that were thrown upon you kind of energized you to do more.
Sarlie:
Yeah, it did. It kind of gave me a lot more purpose and drive to prove people wrong and then to use that to help other people, because I realized after talking to a lot of my clients as well that they’ve been told the same kind of messages, that they couldn’t do this, or they couldn’t do that, which wasn’t the case, it wasn’t true, they just hadn’t been exposed to the correct information or the correct strategies and didn’t have the support that they needed. I’ve always been very career-driven, and I wanted to help people have the careers that they wanted to have, because it’s so important. We spend so much time at work, why not do something that you love?
Jeff:
Well put. But this hasn’t limited you to just the workforce or your education, you just went scuba diving, and you do rock climbing.
Sarlie:
Yeah. I’ve always been pretty active and adventurous, I think that’s one thing that I’m really grateful for, is that once I started losing my vision, I didn’t stop doing those sorts of things, so I’ve been able to continually go scuba diving as my vision has been changing, and sometimes it’s been a little bit anxiety-provoking, I guess, when I haven’t been diving for a while and then I’m trying to set up my oxygen tank and everything like that, but it’s something that I really enjoy doing and I don’t want to let anything stop me from doing it, and it doesn’t have to, so it’s been really great. I just recently got back from scuba diving at the Great Barrier Reef, which was my second time doing that, and it was just such an amazing experience, it was really really fun.
Jeff:
Now, with Stargardts, you have peripheral vision somewhat. So you can paint the picture, you can get the idea of what’s there, you’ve seen it before. It’s a little different than like RP, where- they both have their perks, don’t they? RP, you only see a little bit, you can see a lot. Your depth, it’s just different, but you keep accepting the challenges. I guess I want to ask the question, like, what is it that keeps you motivated, because so many people- you said you took a year off, kind of like to gather your thoughts and start going again, some people it takes a lot longer than that. What do you say to those people who were just recently diagnosed, are starting to lose their eyesight?
Sarlie:
I would say that don’t lose hope, you can still have an amazing career, you can still have a really fulfilling life, it doesn’t have to stop you from doing what you want to do. There may be days where it’s challenging, but I think we’re living in a really good age at the moment, so if you’re gonna go blind, although it’s not a great thing to happen, but it’s probably the best time for it to happen because there’s so much technology available now. Even using just a smartphone, like that wasn’t available when my parents were my age, so I think there’s just so much technology and support out there, it doesn’t have to stop you from doing anything that you want to do, and there’s definitely a lot of people out there who will be willing to help you as well, so just reach out if you have any questions or if you need more support, there’s definitely a lot of people who can help you and give you advice.
Jeff:
So are you an Android or Apple iPhone user?
Sarlie:
So I’ve always been an Android user but I’ve recently started using Apple phones because my vision is still continuing to decline, and that’s- what I’ve heard a lot is about the accessibility features on Apple and how easy it is to use, so I’ve started moving towards Apple products, but I’m kind of in between, so I’m kind of using both, and just seeing what I feel suits me best, but I’m still learning. When it comes to technology I don’t know what one I prefer yet, I’m still trialing them both out, I guess.
Jeff:
Well, you said it, there’s a lot of technology out there, and I think whatever works for someone works for them. It’s nice if people can get their hands on some technology and check it out to see what’s best for them, because you can hear other people using it or doing it, and you don’t know, and it’s not cheap equipment either to really guess at.
Sarlie:
Definitely. And I think even with YouTube, you can just search on YouTube and lots of people will do different demonstrations of different technologies, and that’s a good thing to help you get a bit more understanding and a bit more of a feel for what you think is best as well, which is really helpful. Or they can listen to your podcast, ‘cause I know you talk a lot about tech as well. So yeah, there’s just so much out there that can help you now.
Jeff:
Well, thanks for that shout-out.
Sarlie:
One thing that I would suggest to people who don’t have much employment experience or have recently lost their vision is to try and work on your job readiness skills, so things like learning how to touch type, working on your orientation and mobility skills, just trying to building your independence, that’s something that I would always recommend and you can do that alongside with looking for a job as well, because you want to feel really confident when you’re going to a job or going to a job interview, that you can do all areas of the job and you can travel to the workplace. Even if you’re working from home it’s still good to have that confidence and have all those skills before you start looking for a job or in addition to looking for work as well.
Jeff:
You remind me of something that just like in college, before college starts, you usually do a tour of the campus, that before an interview it’d be nice to go the day before, take a test run to get there, to see what it’s like. Are the buses open? Are the transportations working? Does it drop you off a parking lot away, or something of that nature, how do you get to the front door? And just scope it out, it’s always nice to have that confidence behind you on the day that you’re gonna be nervous, a little bit.
Sarlie:
Yeah, yeah, definitely, because job interviews are so nerve-wracking already, you don’t want to be stressed about trying to get to the room on time, or to find the building because sometimes, you know, things might not be signposted very well, or like you said, you might get dropped off at a location that you’re not really expecting if you’re catching a bus or a train or something like that, so I would always recommend trying to do a test run like you said. It really eases a lot of that nerves and that worry that you might have on the interview day, it’s one less thing to worry about, I guess. Makes life easier.
Jeff:
I like that you mentioned mock interviews, because once an interview starts, it’s painful, in a sense, that anticipation, the anxiety and all that, but with a mock interview, your expectations will change because you’ll be prepared, like you said, all the stuff that you do. So I’m glad you do what you do. It’s neat.
Sarlie:
Yeah. I think the mock interviews are something that a lot of my clients really are interested in. As soon as I tell them, they’re like oh yes, I’d love to do that, because it’s something that a lot of us struggle with. It’s a very awkward situation when you’re sitting in front of an interview panel, it’s not like a normal everyday situation and a lot of people aren’t used to really talking about themselves either, yeah, it’s something that definitely can be very nerve-wracking for people, and when I do a mock interview with clients, I try and make it as close to what the real interview will be as possible. I don’t have all the questions that they’re gonna give you, but usually I can anticipate around 8 out of the 10 questions and then we’ll workshop how to answer tricky questions like you mentioned before, like what is your biggest weakness and that sort of thing, so we’ll workshop answers so you know how to respond to them, and then I’ll prepare you for how to answer any other curveballs that might come along as well, as well as things like, as I mentioned before, how to tell the employer about your disability, we’ll workshop that together during the mock interview and get you to practice that as well so you’re really confident going into the interview beforehand.
Jeff:
Is there such a thing as a follow-up letter back to the company?
Sarlie:
Yes, so I would definitely recommend after your interview, try and get the interviewer’s details and definitely send them and email just thanking them for their time, it doesn’t have to be really long, just a quick email just to say thank you, I really enjoyed meeting you, you can mention a few things that they said during the interview that you really liked as well, but that can leave a really good first impression because not many people do that, so just taking that little bit of extra time and effort can go a long way, and then also if you send it the next day, it can also put you front of mind again, so your name will pop up again in their email and they’ll think about you again, so it’s a really good way to make sure that you’re still ruminating in their brain after your interview’s finished.
Jeff:
I really like that, ruminating, I like that, I like those words. The other thing I really like, and you mentioned this way in the beginning, it’s like you help people find the job they want. You’re not trying to fit them into a square hole or a peg or something like that, like a lot of blind people are pigeonholed into these jobs that other people think would be best for them, where you take the approach is what do you want to do? Where’s your passion, what do you want to get up and go to work every day and do?
Sarlie:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s one of the main reasons why I decided to start this coaching business, because I know from personal experience when I first lost my vision a lot of different employment agencies were just trying to push me into doing any type of job and there were jobs that I really didn’t want to do, there were jobs that I wasn’t personally really even suited for because they wanted me to be, like you said before, like working in a call center or working sales. It just wasn’t really suited for me, it wasn’t something that I wanted to do. Like I said before, we all deserve to have a career that we love, and that’s what motivates me is working with clients and getting them into jobs that they love and hearing back from them and hearing about how much they’re loving their jobs and how amazing everything’s going for them, it really pushes me forward and motivates me to keep going with this business and what I do in life.
Jeff:
And with your coaching, rock climbing, you’re helping people climb their own mountain.
Sarlie:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jeff:
I can see your branding logo right now. How did you come across Blind Abilities?
Sarlie:
Through searching on Facebook for different groups. So I joined a lot of support groups when I first started losing my vision, then I started joining a bit more recently as well, with my business, just because I noticed in a lot of groups people were asking for different employment advice and I saw a post recently where someone said she was applying for I think 450 jobs or something within the last year and hadn’t gotten hired, so I just wanted to try and put out there that there is help and support for people. I do a lot of free advice and information through emails and social media as well, so I just wanted to try and reach out to people, and then I saw your page and all the different advice that you give in terms of technology and other areas as well, so I just started following you, and yeah, I really love your podcast, I’ve listened to quite a few episodes now, and it’s really great what you do.
Jeff:
Well, I wasn’t trying to get a shout-out there, but Sarlie, I think it’s really great what you’re doing. You’re motivated, you’ve experienced it, and you’re trying to teach others, helping others. I always thought that the best teacher was experience, here you are, your experience, bringing it to everybody else. I really like that. Once again, can you tell people where they can find you and what services you provide?
Sarlie:
Yeah, absolutely. They can just find me if you just google sarliedrakos.com, which is s-a-r-l-i-e-d-r-a-k-o-s.com, then that’s my website, and you can just book in a call with me, and I can help you with all stages of the employment, so if you have no idea what career you want, I can help you with that, I can assist you with all the recruitment stuff, self-advocacy as well, which we discussed before, just head onto my website, you can book in a call with me, and I can have a chat with you and just see what kind of support you need and then we can go from there.
Jeff:
So everyone that has a visual impairment doesn’t have to work in a call center?
Sarlie:
Oh no, god no, I could not do that. I mean, if you want to work in a call center then you definitely can, it’s all based on what type of jobs you want to do, and I’ve worked as a rock climbing instructor with low vision, and I know people who work as lawyers who are blind, so really whatever type of job or career you want to do, just have a chat to me, you might not be able to get your dream job straight away if you don’t have any kind of experience or skills in the industry, but we’ll definitely work out a roadmap to help you to get there, so definitely it’s all based on what you want to do, not gonna push you into any type of career that you don’t want to do, so yeah, we’ll definitely figure out what’s best for you and work out a plan together to help you get there.
Jeff:
Sarlie Drakos, disability employment coach. Thank you so much for coming onto Blind Abilities and sharing with us what you do, what you know, and giving us the information where people can contact you so they can find out more about their possibilities in the job market and their future, so thank you.
Sarlie:
Thank you so much for having me, it’s been wonderful.
Jeff:
Such a great time talking to Sarlie Drakos, and be sure to check out Sarlie’s website at sarliedrakos.com, we got links in the show notes, and don’t miss the upcoming Blind Abilities job insights, where Sarlie and Serina and myself will be hosting and bringing you tips on the job market, employment, job readiness, and much much more to enhance your opportunities on employment. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store and Google Play store. That’s two words, Blind Abilities. And if you want to leave some feedback, give us some suggestions, give us a call at 612-367-6093. We’d love to hear from you. A big shout-out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music, you can follow Chee Chau on Twitter @lcheechau. And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, stay well, stay informed, and stay strong. I want to thank you for listening, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.