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In this episode of Job Insights Sarlie Drakos, Dacia Vanalstine and Jeff Thompson talk about following-up after a job interview and dive into the “white elephant” in the room, If, When, why and how to, if one decides to, disclose a disability during the job interview process.
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Full Transcript
Job Insights: Job Interview Follow-Up and Disclosing a Disability – If, Why, When and How
Jeff:
When do you disclose that you do have a disability? That’s the big, as we call it, the white elephant in the room during the job interview.
Dacia:
The important question is why are you disclosing? There’s all kinds of reasons that you might, and that will tell you when to disclose.
Jeff:
Job Insights, a podcast to help you carve out your career pathway and enhance the opportunities for gainful employment.
Sarlie:
I would just personally just wait until they have confirmed the day and the time of your interview first, I think that’s really important.
Jeff:
To help you navigate the employment world and give you job insights to choose the career you want.
Dacia:
It’s such a personal thing for everybody. Even the same person might disclose at different times for different reasons.
Jeff:
And you can find the Job Insights podcast on blindabilities.com, part of the Blind Abilities network.
Sarlie:
You can really use your lived experience to perceive it as an advantage to that company, and if you can express that well, then it can really help you with the job interview as well, and help you get hired.
Jeff:
Learn about resources for training, education, and employment opportunities.
Dacia:
The key is to always make sure that you make it about yourself and your skills, not necessarily about your disability.
Jeff:
Now, please welcome Sarlie Drakos, and special host Dacia Vanalstine. We hope you enjoy.
Sarlie:
You can also mention that, because of that, I have to deal with a lot of problems in my daily life, and that makes me extremely resilient. I’m really good at problem solving and coming up with creative solutions.
Jeff:
Welcome to Job Insights. I’m Jeff Thompson, and with me in the studio we have Sarlie Drakos. Sarlie, how’s it going?
Sarlie:
I’m good, thanks. How are you?
Jeff:
I’m doing good. And also with us is Dacia Vanalstine. Dacia, welcome aboard.
Dacia:
Hi Jeff. How’s it going?
Jeff:
It’s going pretty good. And today we’re gonna finish up a little bit on the job interview, and it’s like after the job interview, what do you do? Do you just sit and wait or do you, hmm, I think both of you probably have some good suggestions, what to do after the job interview. Go ahead, Sarlie.
Sarlie:
Okay. Awesome. I always recommend sending an email after your job interview. When you’re in the interview, it’s always important to try and get the person’s name and remember their name and get any contact details you can, if it’s possible. A lot of the time it will be in the job description, but if not, just keep note of the person’s name so you can address the email directly to that person who is in the interview with you. You just send a quick email thanking them for their time. It doesn’t have to be super detailed or super long. It can just be a really quick email just to say that you appreciated their time and you enjoyed the experience. You can mention a few things that you really liked about the company, if they’re giving you information about their business. But yeah, you just want it to be really short and sweet and I’ll usually send that a day or two after the interview. You don’t wanna wait too long, possibly send it the next day, would be really good. And that just really helps keep you front of mind when they’re looking through all the different applicants and making their final decisions, and a lot of people don’t go to that extra effort or that extra step, so it can really make a big difference.
Dacia:
And if you can, you can always ask during the interview if they have business cards, a lot of them will carry business cards with them, so you might be able to get those and that can help you get that information.
Sarlie:
And you can always ask them as well if they’re comfortable with you adding them on LinkedIn. And then even if you’re not successful for the role, it’s still another contact that you can have, which might help you with future opportunities as well.
Dacia:
About a week later, if you haven’t heard anything back, don’t forget to check in with them, see if there’s any extra information that they need, any questions that you can answer, let them know you’re still interested.
Sarlie:
Mm-hmm. And if you are unsuccessful, I would also suggest just politely asking if they have any feedback so you know what to improve on for your next interview. A lot of people don’t really do this, but it’s good getting that insight from the employer’s point of view, because you might be doing the same thing in all your interviews, and it can just be a tiny little tweak that can really make a big difference. So yeah, I think they’re the main things, unless you have anything else to add, Dacia?
Dacia:
No, I don’t. Those are it.
Jeff:
Yeah, and I would make sure that this is really concise and to the point. And you guys make really good points here. You know, follow up, ask for that feedback, the suggestions might really pay dividends in the long run. There’s something that we didn’t really touch on about the job interview here, and that is when you’re, you know, you have a disability, whether you have a cane, a guide dog, or if you have some other disability, or if you can’t make eye contact or something of that nature. When do you disclose that you do have a disability? That’s the big, as we call it, the white elephant in the room during the job interview. How about you, Dacia?
Dacia:
When it comes to disclosure, it’s such a personal thing for everybody. Even the same person might disclose at different times for different reasons. When I’m talking to job seekers about disclosure, the important question is, why are you disclosing? There’s all kinds of reasons that you might and that will tell you when to disclose. If you’re getting an interview, they give you a call and they say, hey, you know, can you come in at this day, at this time, for an interview? If you have a white cane, that probably would be- or if another physical disability, that probably would be a good time to disclose, just so that you’re not taking them by surprise when you get there, because when you walk in an employer sees that white king for the first time, if they don’t have any warning, all that’s going through their head is, oh my gosh, this person is blind, oh my gosh, this person is in a wheelchair, I hope I don’t say the wrong thing, and I wonder if they can do this job. And all these things are going through the employer’s head, and so disclosing ahead of time can kind of limit how much that happens.
Sarlie:
Yeah, I agree, and I think in that particular case, if you do have a visible disability or if you are using a long white cane, I totally agree with Dacia about disclosing on the phone, but I would just personally just wait until they have confirmed the day and the time of your interview first. I think that’s really important. Following up on that, I would also just mention quickly, I just call it a disclosure statement and just reinforce to them that you can still do the job, that you can travel independently and all that sort of stuff on the phone when you’re talking to them. And then you might also be speaking to someone different who’s in the job interview, so then you can go and do that disclosure statement again. But I think when you first tell them that you have a long white cane, or that you’re blind or have a vision condition, I think it’s important to just quickly go over and I guess reassure and educate them that you can still use a computer, you can still do the role, you can travel independently. You don’t have to go into a lot of detail again, but just give them that reassurance as well.
Dacia:
I absolutely agree with that.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm. I really like the point that you made about the timing, like if you’re in a job interview over the phone or over Zoom and then you proceed to get a time where you’re gonna have an in-person, that’s the best time to do it. Timing has to be a big part of this whole process of disclosure.
Sarlie:
Yeah, and I think that’s what makes it really hard because there’s not one hard and fast rule. It really depends on, like we said before, like what you feel comfortable with. It depends on the type of role you’re applying for. It depends on your disability, depends on the recruitment process. So there’s so many different factors, so there’s not just one time that’s a good time to disclose. It really does depend on each individual situation, which can make it hard for some people to, I guess, determine when they should disclose if they’re planning to do that. But yeah, I think just generally speaking, if you do have a visible disability, like I said, wait until your interview has been confirmed. If you’re going in for a face-to-face interview before you disclose, but if you have an invisible disability, like myself, I’m legally blind, but I don’t use a long white cane or a guide dog or anything like that, I usually suggest waiting until the end of the interview if you can travel there independently and you can go to the interview room fine and that sort of thing. Yeah, just do it at the very end of the interview, after you’ve asked a few questions about the company, that’s when I would have that conversation, so they’re not thinking about your disability the whole time and doing that internal monologue, wondering if you can do the job or not. They’re just focusing on you and your skills and your ability, and then it’s only at the very end that I would tell them, and again, you would still reinforce that you can do the role, that you can travel independently. If you use any technology, you can briefly explain the technology that you can use. Some of my clients even do quick demonstrations with technology if it’s easy for them to carry in with them to the interview room, because I think sometimes that just reinforces or really highlights that you are able to do the role. But yeah, just use positive language and you know, don’t use any negative terms like I can’t do this or I can’t do that. But yeah, and that’s what I would recommend, just generally speaking. But like I said, it really does depend on each individual situation and what you feel comfortable with.
Jeff:
Now, myself, knowing a lot of different degrees of blindness, I guess, some people using a cane or a guide dog going into an interview, it’s obvious right there when you come in the front door, but there’s other people who may not need a cane, but they can’t make eye contact or something like that. So if you are in the interview and you can’t make eye contact that well, or if you’re not sure of yourself like that, it might show up in the interview that the person might be thinking, what’s wrong? There’s something wrong here. Disclosure, legally, they can’t ask you in a sense, but it may help them understand why you’re not making perfect eye contact or why you’re looking off to the right or the left, even though you didn’t use a cane coming in, and you can guide yourself like that. There’s other moments in the interview that it might be obvious that there’s something different and you want that upfront, you don’t want that to be in the back of their mind like Dacia said.
Dacia:
Well, when it comes to situations like that, too, most interviews start out with something along the lines of, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself. When you have a situation similar to that, you can disclose at that point. The key is to always make sure that you make it about yourself and your skills, not necessarily about your disability. If you do disclose, at that point you could say, you may notice that I’m not looking directly at you and it’s because I have a vision impairment, and then go into like your skills and when you start talking about how you do things, and I usually recommend that people don’t say that they use like a software called JAWS because most employers think of the movie Jaws with the shark and they don’t know what JAWS is. So using things like I use speech output, so the computer talks to me, or I use screen enlargement. So non-technical words, because the employer, chances are they’ve not come across somebody who, in the workplace, that’s visually impaired, because vision impairments are such a small percentage of the population that they may not understand what something means or the skills that someone could have. So it’s always good to use non-technical words.
Sarlie:
Yeah.
Dacia:
I always tell people.
Sarlie:
I agree. And I think that also comes into it when you are explaining about your vision loss. Because I know some people will say that they have retinitis pigmentosa, for example, and they’ll say their visual fields are less than 10%, or my visual acuity is whatever it is, and employers don’t really know what that means. So you can just use very general terms to say that you have low vision or you have a vision condition, whatever you feel comfortable with saying. You don’t have to go into like the nitty gritty explaining your diagnosis or anything either, ‘cause employers aren’t gonna understand that. Another thing that I wanted to quickly mention is employers are often also worried about the cost of hiring people with disabilities, it seems to be one of their big concerns. So if you already have technology that you can use at the workplace, or if you live in an area where you can get funding from the government for technology or workplace adjustments, I would definitely mention that, and just like I said, reinforce to the employer that they’re not gonna have to pay for any adjustments that you need to do your job, if that is the case for you, depending on where you live. So yeah, just keep that in mind that that is something that employers often think about with disabilities. They often wanna know if you can do the job, if you can do it well, and how much is it gonna cost them. And are you gonna be safe in the workplace is probably the last one as well.
Jeff:
Yeah. And it might be a conversation piece a little bit, like when you start talking about a screen reader or your computer talks to you and they might say, wow, tell me more. They might be curious, or something like that. So be prepared that it might not be too shocking to some people who are conducting the interview and they might be very receptive, which would be a nice point. And this experience that you’re gaining by doing this is disclosures, if you have another interview, you can put this all in your back pocket and see how it went, you know, see how it goes. But the main thing is you’re gonna put your best foot forward for this job, and you want to ease them. And I really like what you said, Dacia, don’t make it about your disability, make it about your skills. I do this this way, and I can do this, you know, the stuff that you, from our last interview, those key words, if you can use Windows software, Office, you’ve used it for X amount of years and you used it with a screen reader and you’ve been successful, so you’re gonna put them at ease and they will start to just conduct the interview.
Sarlie:
Mm-hm. And just following up on what you said about the employer might be really interested, I’ve had a lot of clients who have gone to job interviews and at the end of the interview they’ve disclosed and they’ve explained the technology they use just briefly, but they’ve brought in a few pieces of equipment, like for example a handheld electronic magnifier, and they asked the interviewer if they would like a quick demonstration. And usually it’s a really good way just to break the formality of the interview. You can give the interviewer a little play around with your tech if a lot of it’s pretty hard to break, if you’re not worried about it, that sort of thing. And yeah, it can just ease some of the tension, it can help employees that really understand a lot more about you and it can build that rapport as well. And yeah, a lot of the time they are really interested. If you bring in technology or if you have that conversation about your vision loss in a really positive way, it can really help to break down those barriers or those walls.
Jeff:
Yeah. The other thing is if you put down on your resume your last two jobs, you worked at a blindness place or something that has blind in the name of the company or something of that nature, they might be getting a clue already, and- but you made it to this point, you made it to the interview. You’re there. They realize that you can do the job and this other piece is just easing them into believing that you’re the best candidate for the job. Because technically, just because you have a disability, that doesn’t give you a higher ranking, that doesn’t give you more points, they’re only required to hire the best candidate for the job, and your disability, you want to go in there with the feeling, the the confidence that we talked about before, and this disability is, some people call it just a nuisance, just a little obstacle, but you gotta show it to them. You gotta tell them confidently that it’s an obstacle that you can work around, and do the job.
Sarlie:
Yeah, and it can also be of value to companies as well. Like a lot of their customer base are everyday people and part of the population are people with disabilities, so by you having a disability and having that lived experience, it can be an advantage for employers to hire you because you’re gonna understand that part of their customer base. I know Apple’s a really good company for really championing people with disabilities in their workforce. Sometimes people are treated a little bit like a token, but I believe from my personal experience that Apple doesn’t do that. They really try and make it as inclusive as possible, and then they try and find ways to help, I guess, make their products better by hiring staff who have disabilities, and it can actually be of value to companies. So keep that in mind as well, that it can be an advantage if you are able to verbalize that to employers and make that point, it can actually help you during the interview as well.
Dacia:
Absolutely. I know that here in the States, that diversity, equity, and inclusion is a huge thing right now, and we know that in the United States, about 20% of the population have a disability, so the workforce should reflect that, and a lot of companies here are trying to hire to reflect that. And so it really does bring a lot of things. It brings a lot to employers.
Jeff:
I really like this conversation because other than the timing or when to disclose, if you disclose, it really comes down to, as we’ve said throughout this, it comes down to the individual, to yourself, to your blindness, your visual impairment, how much you can do without the cane, without a dog, without technology, and when you’re going into the interview, you have to be very confident about your disability. You own it. You have to ride right past that. Don’t make it a big bump in the road. The way you present yourself through the skills, the disability is just part of it. So be confident with it and they’ll know that you’re confident with it and it may not be a problem at all to them.
Sarlie:
Mm-hmm. I agree. The more confident you sound, the more confident the employer’s gonna be with hiring you. So definitely a hundred percent agree with that.
Dacia:
Absolutely, and we did talk last time about if they’re calling you for an interview, then they’ve already decided based on your resume and your application that you have all the skills that they need for this position, that you are one of the top candidates or they wouldn’t bother bringing you in. So right there, it should give you some confidence, so now it’s your turn to go in there and shine and make it about your skills, disclose when it feels right, and make it about your skills. Disclosure is such a personal thing. Every situation is so different and there’s so many times I wish I could just give people the magic “this is how you do it,” because so many people want that. Just tell me how to do it. And we really can’t because there’s so many different ways to do it. I do usually talk to people though, why are you going to disclose? Because that’ll help you with the how. Maybe it is because you’re looking off to the side, and so you want to address that. Maybe it’s because you’re walking in with a white cane and you wanna address it. Maybe because you feel like you’re gonna need some adjustments or accommodations on the job. So that why will kind of help.
Jeff:
Exactly. Yeah. You want to, as Dacia once put it, you wanna tear down that elephant and drag it out of the room.
Dacia:
You know, I do know in an interview that it comes down to if you don’t feel like the employer should hire you, you’re gonna give that vibe off.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm.
Dacia:
If you feel like that you can do this job, and you should feel like that because you did get called in for this interview. So if you feel like you can do this job and that confidence comes across and you know that they can hire you and that you’re going to rock this position, go in with that. There’s nothing wrong with having that kind of attitude. Well, I mean, I guess you don’t wanna come in arrogant. But, you wanna come in with confidence.
Jeff:
Mm-hmm. And the thing is, we all know that if you’re visually impaired or blind, that you think outside of the box, you are solution-driven. And companies are looking for people who do find solutions to problems. And you disclosing your disability to them, they’ve already figured you can do the job. They know you probably have thought outside the box and are solution-driven. So you do have some qualities if you believe in that, that’ll help your confidence too, that they’re looking for people like you.
Sarlie:
Yeah, you can also mention that to employers as well, like when you tell them that you have vision loss, if you decide to go down that road, you can also mention that because of that, I have to deal with a lot of problems in my daily life, and that makes me extremely resilient. I’m really good at problem solving and coming up with creative solutions to problems, which could be of value to your company. So you can, as I mentioned earlier, you can really use your lived experience to perceive it as an advantage to that company. And if you can express that well, then it can really help you with the job interview as well and help you get hired.
Jeff:
Good points. Good points. All these are good points.
Dacia:
Yeah.
Jeff:
Kind of the white elephant in the room in the job interview is should you disclose, what time you disclose, how you should disclose, and being confident about disclosing your disability. Next time we’re gonna be talking about something we hope you’re confident about too, is what happens when a company looks you up on social media? So Dacia, social media, you’ve kind of tackled this before.
Dacia:
I have, yes.
Jeff:
It’s pretty important.
Dacia:
It is extremely important.
Jeff:
So you’re actually saying that they stalk you for a little bit, if you’re applying for their company, they can find some information there, that might deter them from choosing you?
Dacia:
Absolutely. There’s lots of things companies do to stalk you online.
Jeff:
Hmm. So stay tuned for the next Job Insights, where we talk about social media and what you should do and don’t do on social media, especially when you’re applying for a job. So from all of us here at Job Insights, thank you Dacia.
Dacia:
Thanks for having me!
Jeff:
And thank you Sarlie.
Sarlie:
Thank you!
Jeff:
We’ll see you next time. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @Blind abilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the App Store and Google Play Store. That’s two words, blind abilities. And if you want to leave some feedback, give us some suggestions, give us a call at 612-367-6093. We’d love to hear from you. A big shout out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music. You can follow Chee Chau on Twitter @lcheechau. I want to thank you for listening, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.