Full Transcript
Jeff:
You may have heard them before on Blind Abilities.
Speaker 2:
The moment has come
Joe:
They brought me on early in the show and told me about their commitment to bring on actors who are blind or low vision. And that was exciting to me.
Speaker 4:
Centuries from now, almost all humans have lost the ability to see.
Bree:
Blindness is not a skill-set is not this cool acting challenge. It is a lived experience.
Roy Samuelson:
A shaky haired man, stumbles to the road. A white SUV passes.
Satauna:
I have clients in over 25 countries. I mean, the beautiful thing about voiceover is it’s a worldwide thing. You can do it almost anywhere.
Stephen Letnes:
Jeepers Cats, man. We’re like, what, what are Blind people really good at than, they’re not most people? We’re natural problem solvers. We get up. We have to figure out how to do things.
Jeff:
And now they return for an entertainment round table discussion with a blindness perspective, actor, voice artist, singer/songwriter, Bree Klauser.
Bree:
The fact that I, as a human being have to have someone vouch for me, like the commissioner of the blind or something, makes me… There is a little bit of a deflation of feeling not competent.
Jeff:
Voice artist, Satauna Howery.
Satauna:
Services, like Aira that have lots of people working for them. All of those people are going to have these experiences with people who are blind. And then they’re going to go out into the world onto their next gig or whatever, and still have that information and still have a much better grasp of what accessibility looks like or doesn’t look like.
Jeff:
Audio describer. Roy Samuelson.
Roy Samuelson:
The challenges that happen when engaging with the entertainment industry. I’m curious what efforts have been successful when connecting with sighted people to help, whether it’s educate away some of the poor assumptions or the bad assumptions, how do you dismantle… I don’t mean to put anybody on the spot, but I’m curious. Maybe there’s been an example that someone’s had where a sighted person, quote-unquote, got it.
Jeff:
Associate producer and blindness consultant, Joe Strechay
Joe:
If we’re going to include people who are blind or low vision, making sure we’re including other types of disabilities as well. And none of those characters, whether they’re in the background or not were defined by their disability.
Jeff:
Movie producer and music composer, Stephen Letnes.
Stephen:
Well, that’s the great thing about music is music cannot fix something that is poorly produced. Music will not save your film, but it will enhance what is put on celluloid or put on digital, which makes me think of Roy and Satauna about if people hear me and the people are saying, “Oh, this score is really good.” Well then like you said, Roy, I have failed. I have not executed my job effectively. So I think that’s something else that audio describers and composers do have in common.
Speaker 3:
Some say, sight was taken from them by God to heal the earth.
Jeff:
And from all of us here at Blind Abilities, through these challenging times, to you, your family and friends stay well, stay informed and stay strong.
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities. I’m Jeff Thompson. Today in the studio, we have a voice artist, a movie producer, music producers, an audio describer, a foundation founder, blindness consultant, singer, a pianos and a former state director of Blindness Services. And I want to thank all of these five people for joining us today and sharing a little bit about what they do in the entertainment world. And I’m going to just let them introduce themselves. I’m going to hand it to Joe. Go ahead, Joe.
Joe:
Hey, thank you for having me. I’m Joe Strechay. I’m a producer for streaming television and also a blindness consultant. So I work with a show called See on Apple TV+ where I’m a co-producer for the show. And I was associate producer for season one where I advise on scripts and prop set, working with actors and training and movement and a lot more. Creating accessibility on set as well for actors who are blind or low vision. But I also advise blindness organizations around employment and in transition and assist in that manner. I live in Pennsylvania, I’m married to my lovely wife, Jennifer Strechay. I’m also totally blind, so that’s a brief intro to me and I pass it on.
Stephen:
Hey, well, my name is Stephen Letnes. I am from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I am visually impaired and I am primarily a music composer for film. Done over 130 films. Several through some studios, most recent one, Beneath The Ink was nominated for an Emmy. And gotten into producing films recently, well up until the pandemic hit. As I’ll spend a lot more time in Minneapolis and in my place. But my other job is I founded the Able Artist Foundation, which supports and empowers artists of all abilities around the world, in the arts, by providing discounts on software and music products and systems to grants and just launching in the next little bit here, a contest for musicians around the world. So that’s what I do. Thank you very much.
Satauna:
Well, I’m Satauna Howery and I live in Upstate New York where I work out of my home studio as a voice actor. So I get to run my mouth and get paid for it, which is really fantastic and totally fun. I’m totally blind. My husband is Tom and my daughter is Kira and she does some voice acting too. So let’s see, what do I do? I do a lot of narration for e-learning and medical and stuff like that. And I’ll get more into that later, but I’ve done it for about six years. I do music as well, but it’s not how I make my primary living. The thing I do is the voice acting. So that’s me.
Bree:
Hi, my name is Bree Klauser. I’m coming to you from Brooklyn, New York in the middle of lockdown, New York city. I am an actress for both on-camera and for theatrical as well as a singer, former songwriter and voiceover artist. I recently appeared in the first couple of episodes of the series See on Apple TV+. I played the role of Matal. So I made my onscreen debut with that as well as I’ve been very active in the New York theater community for many, many years. And I provide my voice to a number of voiceover projects to be determined. I am legally blind, but in the industry I identify as low vision/visually impaired because of the stigma around the word legally blind.
Roy Samuelson:
Hi, I’m Roy Samuelson. I’m a sighted audio description narrator for film, TV shows and streaming shows. And I teamed up with some partners to develop a new measure of excellence for within the audio description world. And I love connecting with audiences, and specifically audiences with the entertainment industry professionals. And it’s exciting to see all the good growth that’s happening in this little corner. And I’m really passionate about learning more. And most of all, I’m honored to be part of this really talented and skilled group of professionals for this call.
Jeff:
Well, I really want to thank all of you for joining this conversation. We have a lot of listeners from transition age students, all the way to seniors, peeking in to see what the transition age students are using for technology. And when I thought about putting this together, the entertainment world, you guys are doing some sensational stuff. Lots of talent like Roy said, and I know it has an impact on the blindness community as well as the sighted community, which you’re doing your roles. So let’s go into a little more detail on what you do, So Joe.
Joe:
In my work, for Apple TV+ and See, I get to impact the portrayal of blindness. That’s how I really entered the entertainment businesses is advising on shows and providing input as they were building out scripts or storylines around characters who are blind and then training actors in that portrayal to make sure it’s respectful and done right. And then over time, and I have a background in rehabilitation and blindness and my graduate work was around blindness, Florida State University, and my undergraduate was around communications.
Joe:
It moved into, not just those aspects, but helping to build a world around blindness. And our show involves a viral apocalypse and then centuries after that viral apocalypse and during that viral apocalypse, everyone went blind, but getting to help create the culture and rituals around those groups and then figuring out how they might do it.
Joe:
But the employment side and the exciting part about my work of late, is that I get to help create accommodations, but create a universal accessibility as we bring actors who are blind or low vision into our world and making sure that their scripts are in the right format or that their first mark or last mark is not an issue. And they’re able to get the tactile markings or high contrast or whatever that is, but also making our studio accessible because Apple believes in accessibility and our production is committed to it and respecting planets. And it’s exciting to bring on a background who are blind or low vision or actors who are blind or low vision. Currently we have actors who are not blind or low vision as well portraying blindness. And names like Jason Momoa and Alfre Woodard, and down the line, I hope that these actors that come into our show will have the opportunity to keep moving up.
Joe:
And maybe we have the next Jason Momoa or Alfre Woodard who is blind or low vision. It’s cool. And it’s not just that it’s that the people I work with often will move on to other projects. And our showrunner from season one left after season one and him and his writing partner created a show and they went and hired actors with disabilities in different roles and built characters around those individuals, including that disability, including someone who’s low vision, but also other disability. So it’s fun to be a part of that and get to impact the entertainment world in a different way.
Stephen:
Wow, Joe. We need to talk. Oh, wow. That is fantastic. I love what you’re doing. The reason why I started Able Artist Foundation was because being a visually impaired composer, there was nobody in the industry. You didn’t talk about it. I didn’t have any people I could look up to other than, I mean, obviously John Williams and John Powell and tons of amazing composers out there. But over the years, I wondered, “Are there sight-challenged or blind composers that are doing movies?” And I couldn’t find any. And so I thought I would like to be one of those. And I thought I couldn’t be the only one who had a disability who wanted to score films. And so I started the foundation because the products are so expensive and I wanted to make the music products far more accessible for people who may be low income on SSI, SSDI, or whatever their country’s type of benefits might be. So to level the playing field.
Stephen:
And then we developed grants to get people to think about what would their project be if they had some money and they could hire musicians to do a demo to send to studios or to send us producers or directors say, “Here’s what I’m capable of.” And same with the contest. And so the Able Artist Foundation was designed to get more people with disabilities into being able to score film, TV show, advertising commercials, industrials, which honestly, I am spending an equal amount of time if not more doing the foundation now, because there’s such a need for it that I have noticed from countries all over the place, from Pakistan to Namibia, to Nairobi people reaching out.
Stephen:
But I still have the fortune of being able to score films and industrials right now. I’ve actually got some jobs, even during the pandemic, people are hiring me to score films and who knows when the next film festival will be open and available, so people can go see these, but I’m juggling a lot. But I really like what you’re saying, Joe, and I’d love to have a conversation with you sometime about more about what you do.
Satauna:
So this is Satauna, and what I do in the entertainment industry would revolve around things like promo. So what’s coming up next on your TV, what’s coming up next on PBS, or what’s coming up on Sunday morning, that kind of thing. Or radio and television ads, particularly right now with the election coming up, I know the pandemic has sort of thwarted the election in an interesting way, but there’s a lot of political stuff going on right now, a lot of political ads. We tend to think of the national election, but there’s a lot of local stuff that happens, a ton of it. And you don’t realize how much until you’re in this industry. And I do a lot of political, and I love the political stuff. It’s a great way to get your stress out and just… It’s really fun.
Satauna:
So I do that. And then I also do audio description. I voice audio description. So on Netflix, I did all the seasons of F is for Family. There’s a kid’s series called YooHoo to the Rescue, I’m the voice of the description on that. On ABC, I did most recent season of Black-ish and the first season of Mixed-ish and a number of other programs. I’ve done a lot of the programming funded by the US Department of Education that happens on Saturday, Sunday, mornings kind of thing. So, that kind of stuff.
Satauna:
Outside of the entertainment industry, like I said, I do a lot of medical narration, a lot of e-learning. I do everything through my braille display, love the braille display, have multiple braille displays. I can’t have enough braille displays. And I’m also the voice of the Tampa Airport. If you live in Florida, I’m the one that tells you what next train station you’re going to come up to. And don’t smoke and leave your baggage unattended, that’s a bad thing. And all that kind of things.
Satauna:
And with the COVID-19 pandemic, there’s a lot of messaging, everything from corporate anthems and internal videos and messaging to voicemail on hold messaging. “Hey, Disney World and Disneyland and Universal are going to be closed until X time,” that kind of work. So for me, there is plenty of work. Oh, and I would say, I guess audio books would be considered entertainment industry as well. Right? So, that kind of falls in the same category. So there’s lots to do.
Bree:
This is Bree again. So I have the honor and privilege of working with Joe Strechay on See, and I’m going to give him a shout out and saying that he really helped facilitate along with the show runner, Dan Shotz, who started when I was on the show. They really helped facilitate a really open environment about what is blindness? How is it going to be portrayed respectfully. Even though this is a fictional world, we still want it to be portrayed as accurately and respectfully, especially since you have so many sighted people not playing blind, but taking on characteristics of someone not using their sight. Because what’s so unique about the show, is these are not people who are born into a sighted world and have to conform to sighted conventions like eye and such. These are people who are in a sightless world.
Bree:
So I feel like the movement training that we did on the show, it’s informed by things that you learn in orientation mobility, like echolocation and cane technique. I actually learned a lot about cane technique from Joe because I actually never really used a cane. I was really, really stubborn. My vision, I have what is called achromatopsia, full achromatopsia which does put me over the legal blind line as far as the 20/200 thing with correction, but I was very stubborn and I never really wanted to use a cane, but through with the process of See, I learned the benefits of using a cane and when I go to an airport and I whip it out, I get the help I need. And knowing how to use it was a really valuable technique in understanding blindness that is different from my own.
Bree:
And as an actor on that show, not only was I really excited to be part of this fantastical world. This isn’t based on a book or a pre-existing story, us as the actors got to create these characters from scratch. All we have are the words on the page and then our imaginations. So that was really exciting, but it was really exciting to have such influence, which sometimes as actors, we are there to fulfill the creative vision of the talented people around us, like our directors and producers and showrunners, but to have a voice as an actor in how the product is going to come across, because I and the other low vision actors on the show we’re providing a valuable source of information that they didn’t have access to outside us. And Joe, of course, who’s the blindness consultant.
Bree:
So I would literally have the other actors or the director ask me questions of like, “How would you maneuver around this terrain with no sight?” And I would go from my own point of reference, but also the point of reference of people I know who are closer to completely blind. And it helped to inform, I think a lot of story beats, and I think you can see that in the final product that even that little bit of inclusion makes a big difference.
Bree:
And as an actor both on camera and on onstage and on the mic, I hope to not only inform more stories about disability, but also bring the perspective of disability to what would otherwise be written as sighted or-able bodied roles. Because right now we are only at the point in television and film and theater where inclusion is being considered. And I’ve heard this from the mouths of casting directors, inclusion is being considered, but being considered as a whole separate category from diversity. From the diversity of people of color and people of LGBTQ or gender identity. So the idea is for all of us to get under one big umbrella and for those roles to not only exist when they’re written for, but to exist for when the talent is there. And that’s what I hope to see in the entertainment industry.
Bree:
And it’s a little bit of a slowdown for the on-camera stuff. I’ve gotten an opportunity to make tapes for people that I might not meet in the usual busy pilot season, but it’s also a time to reflect, meditate, work on your craft, work on yourself as a human being. So that’s what I’ve been up to.
Roy Samuelson:
Hey, this is Roy. Most of my efforts in the entertainment industry have been on the voiceover side in general. And when I started doing audio description narration, I found that I wanted to kind of keep it quiet initially and just kind of felt like it was this own little tiny place that I could play in my own sandbox. And thankfully I was encouraged to step out of that and start to engage on social media and start to talk with other people. And the irony of that was by engaging in social media, specifically with our blind and low vision audiences, I started to learn more and find out a lot of my assumptions and how wrong they are. And that’s still an evolving process. I’m still learning every day. And I love it, very passionate about that.
Roy Samuelson:
But where I found my fit was not about my voice, but amplifying our audiences’ voices and what they want when it comes to audio description, specifically within my own narration, being able to deliver in a way that our audiences wanted specifically about allowing the experience to be fully immersed. As a narrator, I’m helping write the emotional tone of a scene in a way that doesn’t distract or get in the way.
Roy Samuelson:
One of my favorite examples is if someone’s listening to my voice during a film or a TV show and they’re thinking, “Oh wow, Roy is doing a great job.” I’m not serving the audience, I’m standing out too much. And then obviously the opposite, if I’m sounding like a robot, then that’s going to take them out too. So trying to find that middle ground.
Roy Samuelson:
But beyond just that technique of craft, I’ve found that our audiences do have some really specific needs beyond just narration. That within audio description itself, there’s access with over 4,000 different audio description projects that were released last month, there’s still a lot more that needs to happen. There still needs to be release timed, the same as sighted audiences. And that gap is starting to close, which gets me really, really happy and excited. Specifically within the narration side, I’ve started teaching voice talents. And the idea is to use the expression, nothing about us without us.
Roy Samuelson:
In any class that I teach, I make sure that there’s a blind advisor or a guide who’s helping our voice talents who may or may not be sighted to understand what our audiences want when it comes to that. And that’s been a very important part of kind of evolving from a narrator to a facilitator and getting some conversations flowing between the audiences and what they want and some of the decision makers within the world of audio description and finding out different solutions that help everybody out.
Roy Samuelson:
I love the kumbaya approach and I try to keep it as positive as possible specifically within the world of normalizing disability, There was a great Emmy event, a few… I think it was almost a year ago or maybe a few months ago called, something about the power of TV representation within disability storytelling. And it was a really good example of how the entertainment industry is becoming more aware as Bree said. What we’re all saying is that this is becoming normalized in a way that I’ve not seen before. And that’s thanks to technology. And I think that’s also thanks to the voices of our community speaking up and saying what they want. My goal has been to, again, amplify our audiences’ voices in any way I can. And sometimes it’s wet noodle on the wall that sticks and sometimes it doesn’t, but it’s been really enjoyable to find those. And it’s not without its challenges. There’s been some surprising challenges that have been coming up. So I think that’s my take.
Jeff:
Yeah. All of you are doing great things and you all got your own little niche in this area and listening to all of you, I’m sure there’s some questions that you guys would want to have for each other. I mean, before we started rolling here, I think we came up with three different titles to podcast that don’t exist yet, but we’ve got the titles down, but it was fun. It was fun to get all you in the same room and chit-chat. So if anyone has any questions for anybody, just go ahead.
Stephen:
Satauna, did you get to meet Bill Burr?
Satauna:
Did I get to meet Bill Burr? No, I did not get to meet Bill Burr. That’s a great question.
Stephen:
I mean, you do F is for Family and I listen to the Bill Burr Podcast every Monday and every Thursday. And to hear that you do audio description for F is for Family. I was very excited to hear that.
Satauna:
Yeah. The audio description tends to be pretty separate from the actual show. There’s not a lot of integration there yet. I would say oftentimes the people who are part of the show don’t even have a clue that it’s happening really, because it’s the last thing. And when I say the last thing, I mean, the last thing. I was watching something, I was watching an interview the other day with one of the actresses from the show, Scandal, which of course is done and over, but they were talking about the finale and they were talking about how Shonda Rhimes, the creator of scandal, made an editorial change, three days before it was going to go to air. And I thought, “That’s it. That’s exactly…. That’s the thing is…” Part of the disconnect, I think with audio description is that the studios have no idea what goes into it. It’s sort of viewed as this… It’s kind of like closed captioning is what people think, but it’s not because writers got to write it. And if a change is made in the final video, that can totally change how that script is worded and what happens.
Satauna:
And so oftentimes, we’re dealing with, because we’re in the digital age and things can be changed and edited so quickly, sometimes we don’t really get the finals of things until the very last second. And it’s hard to squeeze all that stuff in.
Jeff:
Satauna, I think Roy is going to invite you onto his new podcasts.
Roy Samuelson:
Yes.
Jeff:
What do you think Roy?
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, 100%
Satauna:
Okay.
Roy Samuelson:
If she would come. I mean, no pressure Satauna but Oh, my gosh.
Satauna:
Sounds good.
Roy Samuelson:
Yay. Did everybody hear that?
Bree:
Yes.
Roy Samuelson:
I’m happy it’s happening.
Bree:
I have a question for Satauna as well. I find it so interesting because I have not met a lot of blind or low vision audio describers. So used to having the low vision community and blind community being on the consumer end of things, especially in New York, a lot of the Broadway shows, those are live audio describers. So all the training that’s available right here has to do with the facility of sight to sit there and describe what’s going on in front of you. So it’s for myself, it’s something I never considered because of my visual impairment. So I wanted to know how you found yourself in that world and what is it like being on both ends of someone who is an audio describer and someone who is a consumer of audio de-scripted content.
Satauna:
So my job is to just narrate what the audio describer writers have written. I’ve never done any live description like in theaters or anything like that. I’ve been to plays and shows, but I’ve not done them. So all of my audio description experience is for streaming content or television.
Bree:
Of course, yes.
Satauna:
And the only one that I did outside of that was there’s a kiosk at the Washington monument. I think that was one of my very first audio description jobs. So there’s like, I don’t know, hundreds of these stones in the Washington monument and each of them is described in this kiosk-
Bree:
Wow.
Satauna:
… and so there’s a touch screen, you can go through it and then they describe all the stones and everything that’s-
Bree:
How did you get into the field?
Satauna:
How did I get into it? I knew somebody in the field and I went through… It’s interesting that you talk about the training, because I completely agree with you, the training is all centered around training sighted people to write for it and do it. And I think it’s particularly interesting too, that there is a blindness advocacy organization in this country that puts on training and does not… I went through that training and the instructor gets up there and talks about, “Oh, it’s wonderful to have a blind person in the room. It’s so great. And we’re so glad to have your perspective.”
Satauna:
And for me, perspective is very different than authority. So, if you’re going to do this training, why would you not have a blind person co-instructing? I don’t really get that. But yeah, I totally agree with you that the training is set up for sighted people.
Bree:
And is that what you do, Roy? You train… You’ve been… Sorry to interrupt, but I know you mentioned that you have a training group now with people who are low vision as well.
Roy Samuelson:
I’m specifically focusing on the narration side and correct me if I’m wrong, Satauna, that’s predominantly focused on the writing?
Satauna:
It is predominantly focused on the writing. Yes.
Bree:
Interesting. So for other low vision people like myself who would want to get into it, what are our options in training and becoming audio describers for new media and television?
Satauna:
Are you looking to write, are you looking to voice or both?
Bree:
Voice, because I’m legally blind so I couldn’t be a writer because I don’t see colors. So that’s one notch out of the block.
Satauna:
I think some of it depends on the companies that you get involved with. And I think that the COVID-19 pandemic may be changing some of that game. There are companies that want you to come in and be there and do it in their space because that’s just the way they’re set up. And so a lot of remote casting simply isn’t done. Right? And I think that’s a big piece of the problem.
Bree:
Interesting.
Satauna:
So I’m hoping that we see some changes in that given where we are now.
Bree:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s a lot of remote casting being done, not just in voiceover, but also even for on-camera people, just screening people to meet people.
Satauna:
Yes.
Bree:
People all over the country.
Satauna:
I know the backstage emails are just blowing up my inbox.
Bree:
Yeah.
Satauna:
Backstage magazine, all those castings.
Bree:
I saw the funniest remote casting, looking for menstruators with disabilities and I’m like, you bet you. And you got to show the different places in your house you can shoot. I don’t know, being one bedroom railroad, I might be at a disadvantage. But it’s so cool. Just like the different opportunities that have come out of this pandemic.
Satauna:
Bree, I had a question for you was which-
Bree:
Sorry for all the non-menstruators.
Satauna:
Oh, so-
Bree:
Yes.
Satauna:
You mentioned earlier that there’s still a stigma around the word blind and I thought that was really, really interesting. Can you talk more about that? And also, and this might be for Joe as well, like on the See-
Stephen:
Yeah, me too.
Satauna:
… set, how many people are there that are visually impaired or totally blind? I don’t know if there’s a number that somebody can stroke just throw out but-
Bree:
Do you want to go first, Joe or me?
Joe:
Yeah, go Bree. You go first.
Satauna:
Oh, I want to hear from both of you because I think you probably have interesting perspectives.
Bree:
Yeah. Which is why I clarify your first question is, Oh, about the word legally. So specifically the word legally blind. So we know that the word legally, you being on the blind spectrum, legally blind is literally a legal term. So I feel like when people hear the word legally blind and they’ve never met someone who’s legally blind and they don’t have any experience of actually knowing a person, all of the stereotypes come up.
Satauna:
Yep.
Bree:
And as someone who doesn’t fit, I would say most of those stereotypes, it becomes very confusing and scary to the people who meet me in the industry. If I say legally blind, sometimes I think they hear the word legal and they think, “Oh, lawsuit, be careful.” But I think they’re going to assume what my vision is. And they’re going to assume what my capabilities are from that term alone, opposed to actually observing me and seeing what I need or listening to me about what my accommodations are. So I have found that when I introduce myself as low vision or visually impaired, I kind of feel out the room.
Bree:
Now with, See, I never felt the need because they were hiring me based on the fact that we need actors who are also low vision or blind.
Satauna:
Right.
Bree:
I never had to do that kind of dance. So I got to be completely transparent. And a lot of times I think I probably surprised a lot of people with, “Oh, you actually see that, Oh, you can actually do it on your own.” So it was a learning curve for everyone involved. I didn’t even start putting it on my resume until after See that I was a person that identified with disability.
Satauna:
Yeah. I can imagine that.
Bree:
For years. And I talked about this when Joe and I and a couple of the cast members we met Tim Cook from Apple. We did this lovely round table like this, except it was a big room and Jason Momoa and some camera people were there. I talked about this idea of kind of coming out as someone with a disability. And at that moment in time, and that’s exactly about a year ago. I would say that I am still, I guess, out of the closet, but with caution. In the sense that I am not going to deny that I have a disability because it’s part of me and it’s not going to change. And even though I don’t feel disabled or I don’t feel blind in my everyday life, because first of all, I was born with achromatopsia.
Bree:
So I was born legally blind and my vision has not changed much. So I haven’t experienced the trauma of losing your vision.
Satauna:
Right.
Bree:
It’s a whole different experience. And I often have to explain that to people, that I can imagine as an actor, I can empathize with what that’s like, but at the same time, that’s not my story. That’s not my story of blindness.
Satauna:
Well, and that’s also the story though, that suffering sight loss narrative is the story that is most often told in the media.
Bree:
Just exactly.
Joe:
Regarding your question about the number of actors and such that we had in our show on Apple TV+ at See, going off the top of my head because I haven’t spoken about this in a long time, I don’t know, it was in the teams for actors with lines. And then there were people for episodes that came in for pieces and episodes throughout. Some of them actually we re-shot some of it too. So some people were lost, including my cameo. I lost my cameo. My first cameo. But…
Bree:
Oh, Joe. It’s okay. I lost my cutting someone’s head off.
Joe:
Yeah, that made it. Didn’t make it?
Roy Samuelson:
Directors cut.
Bree:
No it didn’t.
Joe:
Oh.
Bree:
Yeah.
Joe:
We had two stunt performers who are blind or low vision. We had background who are blind or low vision and throughout, I couldn’t tell you, but over and over again, and we found because we shot outside in the cold and the wet weather of British Columbia, through the winter including snow storms and wind storms. This Vancouver blind hockey team was our most common backgrounds who… You’re coming in there for what is minimum wage in Canada and you’re spending your whole day outside in horrible weather at times and we found that this hockey team was the most committed to it.
Joe:
But we had people who were musicians, all kinds of different people moving into background. But we didn’t stop at blindness and low vision, in our background, we had people who are deaf or hard of hearing, we had people with cerebral palsy, we had an actor with ALS, we had individuals short of stature, individual using prosthetic leg. If we’re going to include people who are blind or low vision, making sure we’re including other types of disabilities as well. And none of those characters whether they’re in the background or not were defined by their disability.
Bree:
Yeah. That’s such a good point, Joe, because in that world, those other disabilities would still exist. Yeah. That was, it’s not just blindness.
Satauna:
Right. But the primary characters on the show, the actors were sighted.
Jeff:
Yeah.
Joe:
Well, it depends, like top 10, Marilee was number 10 in our cast. Bree was number 23, is that right?
Bree:
21.
Joe:
21.
Bree:
Was my number for months and months.
Joe:
And a few others that in the 20s and 30s as well. But yes. Yeah, the top nine were people of sight and as our show moves on those even become more of an awareness of those actors who are blind or low vision and also Marilee Talkington has helped, and Apple helped facilitate that too. But Marilee started a program called Access Acting Academy and they did their first class in Los Angeles in January where they’re training actors who are blind or low vision for film and television and theater.
Bree:
I’ve talked to a couple of actors in the program who really enjoyed it.
Joe:
Yeah.
Bree:
It seems to be really strong theatrical base. I know from Marilee’s experience when she went to conservatory, she had teachers tell her that she couldn’t be an actor because she was legally blind. I was fortunate enough to not face that discrimination, but I’m sure there are a lot of people who want to go to drama school and study, but they can’t because of the community they grew up in or where they happened to go to school. So I feel like the Access Academy provides that resource for people who don’t have that fundamental drama training.
Joe:
Yeah. That is one of the things we brought up early on was the access to actors who are blind or low vision that are professionally trained or had a level of an experience. And knowing it’s going to take time for people to get that experience. As actors go through our show and maybe down the line, we will have a Jason Momoa or Alfre Woodard, who is someone who is blind or low vision. I was the director of the Bureau of Blindness and Visual Services in Pennsylvania and State Vocational Rehabilitation looks at labor market information around jobs. And in your local areas and even if you’re not willing to leave that local area, opportunities for jobs might be slim and hard to find. And a lot of these agencies are looking at what that return is on investment, is acting the best option for this individual? And probably it discouraged many, many people from going into it acting.
Bree:
Oh, absolutely.
Joe:
So that type of program like Access Acting Academy from Marilee is opening up an opportunity and all these programs that mention just in talking about narration and all of that. Those are probably programs that have not been promoted and there are a lot of people that wanted, so we had to be creative. One of our actors, Donovan was a Canadian Paralympian world record holder in swimming. He had a broadcast background from back in the day and had done a little acting, but never in television or film. We had another guy who had been taking two years of acting classes, Jefferson, this was his first role and he got to play in our show. And we had other people like Alex Bulmer who was a voice coach for television and film and singing, and also had been an acting coach. And she came in and she was a recurring role in a couple of episodes.
Satauna:
Very cool. Thank you. Both of you for answering.
Bree:
Thank you.
Satauna:
So, so thoroughly.
Bree:
Yeah. And while you’re talking about that, Joe, I want to say, Stephen what you’re doing with your foundation, I’m really happy to hear that is not just reaching people in this country, but also internationally. Because we often forget, although we’re making progress here in the States and in Canada and in the first world, there are people in other countries living with disabilities or living with blindness who are treated like the bottom of the barrel, because there is not that progressive thinking. So the idea of them being a composer or a musician or an artist is just, there are no resources for them. So the fact that your foundation is helping people internationally, I think that is amazing.
Stephen:
Thank you. And to dovetail off of what you’ve been saying and what you Bree and Joe are doing with See, it made me think about what Satauna and Roy were saying about audio description that, “Holy cow, that we have show notes three days before it goes to air.” And I had the same feeling of, how do you get one of the tail and parts of post-production into the minds of people in pre-production? And I feel the same way about composing, especially if people have a disability, but they’re kicking butt and they’re doing really good stuff, how do you get your name out there? How do you have more of a presence like Access Acting is doing? And so that challenge really is bridging the tail end, the Siberia of film composing and audio description into the minds of people who are in the desert of ideas or trying to find ideas, wherever they might be. And that’s, that’s quite a challenge to get people to be thinking about that on their own.
Stephen:
But seeing all of this, what we’re doing is just push out the message as often as we can, and in user friendly ways that say, “Hey, yeah, we have a disability, but check out our creative, actually a whole lot of people are.” And we have to get not only actors comfortable with acting, but also people in power comfortable with hiring them. And that can be a challenge because I see a lot of people, especially in hiring people with disabilities, a lot of people sitting across the table from someone or across the Zoom meeting might say, “Oh, if I hire this person with a disability, I’m going to have to solve all of their problems for them.”
Bree:
Yeah. That’s exactly like what I was saying about the legal blindness thing. It’s like, I almost have to be like, “I mean I have low vision, but I’m going to do this, this and that.” It’s like, you have to distract them with the pitch. You have to distract them with the talent of the artist itself or the product that the artist is providing. And it’s like, “Don’t look at the man behind the curtain, look at the little puppet over here.” It’s like, that’s what we’re constantly playing with talent buyers in the industry. Just like, “Let’s look over here. Let’s look over here, keep your eye on the goal.”
Satauna:
I think that’s one of the things that I love about what I do, because by the time I open my mouth and say, “Oh, by the way, I’m blind,” should it come up, and there are cases where it does, I’ve already proved myself to my client. So that shock value for them is considerably lessened because they didn’t know that upfront. So they didn’t put me in that intrinsic bias box that they might even not realize that they’ve got, but that is there. So it’s pretty cool to be able to say it once I’ve established a relationship with somebody and then it just, it’s like, “Oh.” So they’re still that wow, awe and amazement, but there’s none of the, “How are you going to manage this?”
Stephen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bree:
That’s so interesting because you use a braille, so every copy that you ever get for a job, your braille, because I’ve never used a braille reader, does it just convert any kind of text into braille?
Satauna:
Yes. So, sighted would have a monitor, right? As your output device with your computer, you’re reading off of a screen and so my output device is a braille display. So it just takes the text and pops it up into braille.
Jeff:
You guys are bringing up some great points here especially being diversified in the things that you do going from braille to large screen. Steve, you’ve mentioned that we were talking a month ago or so, and you’re talking about how you’re going to be producing a movie on an Island somewhere. And I just saw a post from you on Facebook about how getting back into doing a musical score, another skill-set that you have that you’re drawing on right now. The way you wrote it, it was just taking me into the different sounds, the different things, the different pitches, the different music that you put into this stuff. That was really cool to see that.
Stephen:
Well, thank you. Composing can be a delightful challenge because I think at least for me, I feel as though this might be anecdotal, but I will want to show and, or film and know in the first few minutes if the editor or the producers just dumped in some library music, or if they actually hired a composer who researched tone, who researched actors, researched emotions because… Oh, it just bothers me.
Stephen:
And one of the reasons why I got into producing several films was because I’ve been there on the other end when people have deadlines or that they need to hire a composer to… Like I just got hired on a film to solve the issues from a previous composer that they fired. And I figured as a producer I would get to make those hiring decisions. I would be mindful of people in post, the people who do not see who are not recognized. And to be honest, there’s more money in producing.
Bree:
Yeah, I think that’s so interesting when you talk about that, Steve, about people who just let music on at the end. And I think as someone who had a stint as a song writer, I thought I was going to make my livelihood as a singer/song writer, but transitioned, but I consider it all storytelling. And I feel, especially for people who are blind or low vision, that the music impacts the storytelling so much. And I mean, I think it always does. And I think it’s sad how much, sometimes music is an afterthought in producing entertainment and media.
Bree:
For me, I’m the type of person, I love comedies, but I love a good drama, but the music and the score can really make or break a drama for me because if it does sound like that, can they just put that out, it just makes everything sound cheap and it ruins the whole suspension of disbelief that you need in going into a story.
Stephen:
Well, that’s the great thing about music is music cannot fix something that is poorly produced. Music will not save your film, but it will enhance what is put on cellular or put on digital, which makes me think of Roy and Satauna about if people hear me and if people are saying, “Ooh, this score is really good.” Well then like you said, Roy, I have failed. I have not executed my job effectively. So I think that’s something else that audio describers and composers do have in common.
Satauna:
Yeah. That’s so interesting. Steve, can you talk about the tools that you use?
Stephen:
Oh boy, you’re going to lose so much of your audience right now. Jeff. I’m so sorry.
Satauna:
Just like a broad brush overview. Are you a sebellious or a Pro Tools guy or do you bring people in, or are you…
Jeff:
He has a drive in movie theater monitor.
Stephen:
I have a massive screen with super zoom-in and reverse contrast and all that. And I have complete control keyboards that speak to me that will read the dials and whatnot.
Satauna:
Okay, yeah.
Stephen:
Yeah. I guess that’s the biggest thing. I have all the adaptive tools that I’ve needed. I’ve built those and gotten those over the years. It’s a system that works for me. But yeah, my screen is huge. Yeah.
Satauna:
But your DAW of choices, are you in Pro Tools? Are you in Reaper? Are you not in either of those because you’re in scoring tools more or?…
Stephen:
Oh, I use something called Cubase by Steinberg-
Satauna:
Okay. Yup.
Stephen:
… and I actually never learned to write music. And funny enough, I actually got kicked out of music composition college because my professor couldn’t teach a legally blind or a visually impaired musician, but I was never taught to read sheet music, let alone write it. And so if I have the opportunity where a TV show or a film has the money to hire real people to score the music, then I just hire a buddy of mine for him or her to actually orchestrate parts to then be recorded.
Satauna:
Okay. And I have one more, slightly in the weeds question because you’re a native instruments user. I’m just getting into Complete Control. But what I know of it is where a lot of the struggle and frustration seems to be is that native instruments does this raw, raw thing about all the wonderful access they’ve created and yes they have, but it’s all preset driven. So you can’t muck around with the parameters. So you can’t get deep into the weeds and do your own creations of sounds and things like that because a lot of the parameters to create your own sounds and things aren’t accessible. Do you find that frustrating or does that just not an issue for you?
Stephen:
Yeah. That gets into a sampling world. That is a bit of a bottleneck. If I do use the specific programs that have the assistive technology built in, and I’m using a synthesizer that has parameters that are adjustable, filters and delays and ADSRs that is adjustable within Complete Control with the knobs that actually speak to you, which I find very beneficial. I love it, but it is a bottleneck.
Satauna:
Yeah.
Stephen:
And so if you are looking to create something from scratch, then I believe I could be wrong at this point, but I believe you cannot really get into the weeds with your own sounds because it is within that framework they have built,
Satauna:
Right.
Bree:
Yeah. That’s why my partner, he’s a composer. He doesn’t really do a lot of plugins, he does a lot of custom making, but as someone with low vision, I look at that kind of screen and I’m like, “That is a lot of math.”
Jeff:
And Satauna, doesn’t want to stay between the lines, she wants to expand and everything.
Satauna:
Yeah.
Jeff:
As a voice artist, Roy, you have a tool that’s called a WhisperRoom. I think it’s a WhisperRoom, right?
Satauna:
Oh, I’ve one of those too, Roy. I’m sitting in it.
Bree:
Oh my goodness.
Satauna:
My hobbit hole, my four by six hobbit hole, and man, I wish I would’ve gotten a bigger one.
Bree:
Guys. I don’t even have a closet-
Stephen:
Four by six.
Bree:
… so how you can make a WhisperRoom is… You have the box. You have the actual…
Stephen:
You buy one.
Satauna:
Oh, yeah. You buy one.
Stephen:
You buy one [crosstalk].
Jeff:
Did you paint it like Dr. Who’s booth?
Satauna:
No.
Stephen:
No.
Bree:
Oh my God. If I ever did get a WhisperRoom, my WhisperRoom would be a TARDIS Absolutely.
Stephen:
Oh, yeah.
Roy Samuelson:
Okay. I’m looking at my WhisperRoom and I’ve got one of those back massager things that’s like that Acrylic… Have you heard about this thing where it’s kind of like you kind of get in there.
Stephen:
I’ve seen on shark tank.
Roy Samuelson:
I got a shark tank.
Bree:
Wow.
Roy Samuelson:
I got a shark tank shoulder massage outside it stuck with VELCRO. It’s ridiculous. Sorry. Anyway.
Jeff:
Can I ask a question to Joe and to everybody else?
Stephen:
Absolutely.
Jeff:
I’m wondering Joe specifically, this is just a thought experiment, but I love our focus on performers who are disabled and blind and low vision. I’m curious about our audience and if there’s any room, any leeway that production decisions could be made that would affect the audio description or is that totally outside of the realm? There’s so many other great steps that are happening with that show specifically, See. I mean, would that push it over the edge or is that just not practically available?
Joe:
You mean like as we’re filming, deciding things that might end up in audio description?
Jeff:
Yeah. And Satauna, maybe you could jump in here, but there’s a lot of limitations that happen when there’s back-to-back dialogue or sometimes there’s a scene that’s just, it’s captured so beautifully that there needs to be a little more space, a little more room. And I’ve always wondered and curious that that’s never been really a consideration. And again, this is just a thought experiment. It’s not a recommendation. It’s just a curiosity.
Joe:
That’s an interesting question. Now I can’t say that we looked at the dialogue, how the dialogue is set up or delivered to how we could fit the audio description within it. And it’s an interesting question. I would say, I think Accessible Media in Canada, I had a meeting with them not too long ago. They were talking about how they were designing their audio description to almost be like narration and kind of fit in there. But I can’t say that we have, we definitely look at words that we want used for audio during actions while we’re filming.
Roy Samuelson:
Oh, that’s huge. Yeah.
Satauna:
Yeah. That is huge.
Bree:
I, for one, I felt that the audio description for See was done very tastefully because for a show that’s about blindness. It’s very visually rich.
Joe:
I’ll go on and say that when we were watching, I’m a big critic of film and entertainment and television and a product that I was a part of. And sometimes I felt like there were things that were in the audio description that might’ve been missed and, or maybe wasn’t described in the right way. And I’m hoping to impact that for season two. So I hope to talk about that in the future.
Bree:
That’s a great.
Joe:
Down the line.
Roy Samuelson:
Very cool. And one of the things that I was really impressed with was there’s a British content creator. I’m not sure if she’s producer or otherwise, but she was involved in the creation of media, whether it was a TV show or a film or shoot, I’m not clear, but they specifically wrote it so that there would be audio cues that would basically eliminate some of the audio description narration. And I thought that was a really great. It’s almost going back to the old radio play in a sense.
Joe:
That’s cool.
Roy Samuelson:
And I got one more question for the group, to Steve’s point the challenges that happen when engaging with the entertainment industry. I’m curious, what efforts have been successful when connecting with sight people to help, whether it’s educate a way some of the poor assumptions or the bad assumptions, how do you dismantle, I don’t mean to put anybody on the spot, but I’m curious. Maybe there’s been an example that someone’s had where a sighted person, quote-unquote, got it. I’m not even sure if that’s a fair question or not.
Joe:
This is Joe. I kind of referenced that it’s not going to be a very specific, but the person that we mentioned, Dan ShotZ, I was the showrunner for season one and his a writing partner, Jonathan Steinberg. Dan Shotz and John definitely got it and understand it. And they went on to start their own show and build it in to their show. And I think that’s the story. And I think Dan and I spoke about this at a variety of events in Hollywood, around launch of our show. And Hollywood has not got it yet.
Satauna:
No.
Joe:
And I don’t think everyone gets it. I feel like we can educate and try to teach and show and demonstrate. And some people are never going to get it, but you know what? A good amount of people are going to get it and understand. And I think everyone on this call is out there showing them like Satauna was mentioning about after she had already completed the product, showing them. People every day, tell us what we can and can’t do. And even when we were filming season one, there were sets and locations where they were a little more scared about me, but right from the beginning, when we set the standard, if our characters are going to be doing anything, I’m going to do it. So I went out in every environment that our characters were going to be before the actors were onset, climbing down a waterfall.
Bree:
You’re a very athletic, blind person though, Joe.
Joe:
Well, like for one scene, going down to this edge of a cliff, kind of bouldering. And going on, there was this frozen Lake and no one wanted to go out to it. I was like, “I’ll go at it.” And we had water safety people there, and I’m like, “We have water safety people there I’m okay. So I’m going.” And-
Satauna:
How fun.
Bree:
Yeah.
Satauna:
Oh, well cool.
Bree:
I got pulled off the edge of a boat.
Joe:
I think every… Yeah. She did her own stunt.
Bree:
Yeah.
Stephen:
That’s what we’re doing after this show.
Joe:
Bree did her own stunt, where she’s getting yanked off a raft into a freezing cold water. I think we have the opportunity to approve everyone tell everyone, what we can do. And we shouldn’t accept people telling us what we can’t do.
Bree:
Yeah. Building on that, Joe, is that what works so well when stuff really worked well with See is when things were a conversation. And I think in all areas of the entertainment industry, and this is not always my first instinct me as a person, as someone who has always had to advocate for myself my whole life. And just someone who is a little bit forceful to begin with being a New Yorker, sometimes I’m one to just… I need this, this and that and bludgeoned people with my ideas. But that doesn’t work because then you’re making assumptions about what that person’s experience is.
Bree:
Someone might make a comment that implies some kind of stereotype about blindness, “Oh, did you choose this because this word has eyes, whatever.” And it might make me want to roll my eyes at them and be like, okay, they’re being ignorant and putting me in a box, but who knows? They might have a daughter who was low vision. So I think on both of our parts for people who are disabled or low vision and blind and people or the advocates and the people who need, who are in the dark about this, I think there needs to be this openness to accept that no assumptions could be made. And I think that that has always been the best way to educate people and change their minds and have them metaphorically open up their eyes.
Satauna:
Oh, I don’t know. I like the bludgeoning idea personally. I’m there. If I can piggyback on this, I think that there are two things that come up when you were talking about the bludgeoning idea. One of them is that I do think that as individuals, our needs are different, but we need to know them. And that’s important because if we don’t know them and if we don’t know what works for us, and we’re not able to self-advocate it engenders a space where other people get to tell us what to do. So what’s important for us to know what those things are.
Bree:
Absolutely.
Satauna:
And then the other thing is in terms of people getting it and not getting it, I think that, yes, we can talk about the entertainment industry, but I think it’s a broader topic that goes to any industry. And one of the things that jumps out at me is if any of you have ever used Aira, all of those people working at Aira, dealing with blind people every day, reading mail, finding the ear pod that zipped across the room when I dropped it on the floor and it went flying away.
Bree:
Is that the be my eyes app, is that what Aira is?
Stephen:
No. It’s separate.
Satauna:
Aira is a sort of an augmented reality space where you can call in with your iPhone and you can get an agent who is trained in how to work with people who are blind and they will do whatever you need to do. So whether it’s navigating independently through an airport, which is so much fun instead of waiting for a gate agent.
Stephen:
First five minutes are free.
Bree:
Joe, is that the thing we did when we got lost in Vancouver?
Joe:
Yes.
Satauna:
And one of the cool things that I use Aira for a lot is there’s an app called TeamViewer that I can put on my computer and Aira agents have TeamViewer as well, and they can remote into my computer. So if I’m on Amazon, for example, and I’m trying to buy something and there’s three products and they all sort of have a similar name, but maybe they look a little bit different, I can get those pictures described. Or a client sends me a video of the project that they’re doing, there’s no music with it, it’s just the visuals and I’ve got a voiceover script, I can get an Aira agent to describe what’s on the screen. What is this video about? What’s going on? So it’s a great research tool. Or I get the script where it’s a revision and they want me to just read the parts in yellow. And so the Aira agent-
Bree:
Just read the parts in yellow. This is what I was asking about before, how do you deal with that?
Satauna:
Right. So the Aira agent will just strip out all the stuff that isn’t yellow and leave me the stuff that is and send me the document
Bree:
Wow.
Satauna:
With just that. So there’s so many ways that Aira is useful to me. But my point is that I think in terms of having people get it, that really it’s about interacting. And I think that going back to my earlier comment about the shock sort of not being as big for someone who’s already worked with me, that that’s the reason why they’ve already had these interactions. I’ve already been normalized in their view if I can use that term. So I think that’s it. I think that it’s just that normalization that has to keep going on for the able-bodied. They actually have to work with us. So for me, services like Aira that have lots of people working for them, all of those people are going to have these experiences with people who are blind and then they’re going to go out into the world onto their next gig or whatever, and still have that information and still have a much better grasp of what accessibility looks like or doesn’t look.
Jeff:
Something you mentioned earlier about when you’re interviewing to get a particular job, in the real world of the employment and stuff, a lot of people in the blindness community, one of the dilemmas and Joe, you could probably speak to this is, do you put your blindness, your disability on your resume, on your application or do you just show up with a cane, with a dog?
Joe:
So I would say it’s a personal decision for sure. And there are studies about the point in which you disclose your disability. I can’t say that I would put it on my resume specifically, but my resume it would be pretty obvious. I believe in disclosing before going to the interview. I want to give them a heads up to help… Because I’ve been through the experience of showing up where they didn’t know and it turns into from some kind of short interaction basic around my skills. And I’ve met with people even in the field of blindness when I showed up and they didn’t know I was blind when I was an orientation and mobility instructor and coming out of grad school, when you weren’t even allowed to be certified until 1998 as an orientation mobility instructor, as a person who’s blind or low vision.
Joe:
And then I came out when was it? 2005 or so, and I was going to go to an internship and it was supposed to be an orientation. And it turned into like a three hour interview about how I would do the job. And I was explaining and explaining and explaining.
Stephen:
Jeez, wow.
Joe:
And I knew, I was like right away by their reaction and the university arranged my internship and set it up. We weren’t supposed to have dialogue with them until we go and meet with them. And it was my fault because I should’ve taken charge of it. I left there literally called and found myself an internship disclosing right away that I’m blind or at the time, very low vision and explaining that. And I believe in taking charge of the information, controlling the message. I get the opportunity for an interview, before that interview, I’m going to explain that I’m blind and I’m going to explain, I’m sure I’m going to have a white cane.
Joe:
And then I’m going to be prepared to talk about and message about my skills and abilities, but also answer those top two questions. So the National Industries for the Blind did a survey, a study back in 2011. What are the two questions that employers have about hiring someone who’s blind or low vision? And number one is how can you do the job? Number two is how are you going to get to work? And it’s not even just get to work, it’s get to the bathroom. So I’m prepared to be able to talk about that. How I traveled all over the United States for my work. I spent literally one month, I remember back in some of my old work, 28 days, traveling different places. It was like two days here, three days there, two days here and traveling on my own, using my white cane. And how I can do that, and how I traveled to that interview.
Joe:
I’m prepared to talk about that. And in entertainment business or any employment place, you have to be able to address those misconceptions. And I like to call them the elephant in the room. When you walk in the room and there’s this like big purple elephant standing next to you and you have to take control of the message. And everyone in this room is probably used to doing that. I loved what Satauna said when she was talking about being self-aware and knowing what will make you successful, because the biggest problem with anyone going into the employment world and teenagers, adolescents, whether they have a disability or not is understanding where their skills and strengths and weaknesses are and how to talk about themselves. And that sales pitch Bree mentioned earlier, that, “Tell me a little bit about yourself,” is your sales pitch.
Joe:
So I hope that, I don’t know if that helps you out there.
Stephen:
Well, that’s exactly it, it is sales. If you’re not confident, they’re not going to be confident in you.
Bree:
Yeah. If you don’t mind, if I can speak on this as well from someone who shows up, whether it be a job interview. Because I still having to do survival jobs and things like that or an audition, but even at a regular job interview, even though I’m not showing up with a cane or a dog, I still have to disclose. And sometimes I say, “Well, you being an equal opportunity employer,” just putting the guilt on them. But at the same time I feel the need, I feel the need to have someone vouch for me, just like as an entertainer you have your rep, vouches for you that you’re going to get the job done.
Bree:
But the fact that I as a human being have to have someone vouch for me, like the commission of the blind or something, it makes me… There is a little bit of a deflation of feeling not competent or as someone who has done a lot of many, many part time jobs as an actor, we’re trying to do service jobs, which are not very easy for low vision people to do or customer service related jobs, I’m constantly having to answer that question of, “How are you going to do this job?” In a way that my sighted counterparts don’t have to deal with.
Bree:
And I think that’s something that I think young people who are transitioning out of college or high school and going into the workforce, I think that’s something that needs to be taught because when you’re in school, you have an IEP, you have everything set out and you had to lay out your accommodations, whether you need more time for a test or specific low vision aides or things marked out, bumped dots, whatever you need.
Bree:
But once you’re out of school, you’re the only advocate. And it’s really scary. I’m four or five years out of college and I find still, right now in the remote economy, trying to look for remote work, I’m finding a number of assessments are not accessible because they are either timed or color coded or don’t work with certain screen reading apps. And I was talking to Joe about this, is that if we move into a more remote economy, there is kind of a disadvantage for low vision people because employers become less accountable with making those jobs accessible. It is a little bit of a scary time to be someone of low vision during this crisis because of the way employment is shifting.
Jeff:
I think you guys have given a lot of great advice for people who face the challenges every day, especially, like transition students in looking for their future, whether they’re going to be a movie producer, Steve, or any of these things. It’s just so interesting. And I would say there’s more low vision people than there are totally blind, but sometimes meshing that together. Blind Abilities, we don’t want to do a podcast just on totally blind, but because there’s so much low vision and people on the fence coming out of the closet, that you’re visually impaired, you have a disability. I love that when we did that podcast and you mentioned that. It was just a different perspective, I know it’s not authority, it’s perspective, Satauna. And Bree, one other thing is you said earlier that you’re a former songwriter, if anybody gets a chance to listen to home wrecker, great album, great song.
Bree:
I’m glad you love it. Yeah.
Jeff:
Yeah, I do. All of you have so many talents and skills and all that, and that’s why you’re here, so people get to know you some more. Y’all get to come out of the closet a little bit.
Bree:
A little bit more every day.
Jeff:
But yeah. And Satauna, your excitement, your voice. It’s your moneymaker, man. I like it when you-
Satauna:
Thank you.
Jeff:
… get rid of that stress, that was awesome. When I just heard, you do it. It was really fun.
Jeff:
And Steve, your passion for your foundation, what possibilities you’re opening up for people who may be disadvantaged or not have those opportunities.
Jeff:
And Joe telling Apple, the film crews and all that, what it’s like to be blind. When I interviewed Bree, she was talking about how they wanted you to hurry down a hill, but that’s not how a blind person would approach that. So you and your team up there conveying the message to the sighted people, it really matters. It really makes a difference.
Jeff:
And Roy, what you’re doing with audio description, that’s a… I don’t know if we’re going to move audio description to the third week of the movie production it’s always right at the last thing before they kick it out, but what you’re doing and you and Steve both said, Steve does scores for movie productions, that background music and Roy you’re in the background, but it’s just that enhancement, that touch, that brings it full circle to the listener, the viewer. And all of you are doing such a great job at enhancing our lives. That it’s really great that you guys could be here and people get to listen to you. And yeah. Good stuff you guys. Thank you very much.
Satauna:
Yeah, it’s been so much fun.
Bree:
Thank you for having us here Jeffrey.
Joe:
Thank you so much.
Stephen:
That was so wonderful, Jeff.
Bree:
Yeah
Jeff:
If you guys want to say how people, if they want to get a hold of you or something like that, we’ll just go around. We’ll start with Joe.
Joe:
Yeah, definitely. It’s Joe Strechay. And you can find me on Twitter, I think it’s, @jaystrechay and then I’m on LinkedIn and most other social media, as well as on Instagram, I’m pretty easy to find my last name is very distinct.
Stephen:
And you same, which my name is all my handles for all my social media, Stephen Letnes with a P-H, S-T-E-P-H-E-N-L-E-T-N-E-S. And my phone number-
Bree:
Oh.
Roy Samuelson:
Could you trace your house key too?
[laughter]
Bree:
Can I have the last four digits of your social?
Roy Samuelson:
I’m Roy Samuelson and on social media, Twitter, Instagram, and I do all texts. And on Facebook I use Roy Samuelson Biz, B-I-Z. I’m pretty active on the Facebook group, Audio Description Discussion. It’s run by a blind audience member that’s got tons of experiences and it’s very lively and positive group. People want to learn more about audio description and obviously the Audio Description Project site. If you Google Audio Description Project, you’ll find all the links to the IMDb of audio description.
Satauna:
This is Satauna Howery, and I’m going to spell my name because it’s weird. It’s S-A-T-A-U-N-A. And you can find me at satauna@gmail.com. You can find me on Facebook. I’m on Twitter @sataunah. I’m on Instagram. I’m not a big social media user. I should be, but it’s like a rabbit hole I just get sucked in and then I get grouchy. So email me because that’s the greatest way to reach me. And my website, www.satauna.com.
Bree:
I apologize for the noise. It’s seven o’clock in New York City, and that means we’re celebrating our healthcare workers with fireworks outside.
Satauna:
Very cool.
Bree:
Yeah. So this is Bree Klauser and I am most active on Instagram. And my handle is my name B-R-E-E-K-L-A-U-S-E-R. And you can also visit my website, which is just breeklauser.com. And I’m really looking to get into virtual public speaking during this time to reach out to those transitioning-
Jeff:
Cool.
Bree:
… communities or whether you’re losing your sight or getting out of school or trying to figure out how to find work. So if you’d like to reach out to me personally, you can email me at breennklauser@gmail.com. That’s B-R-E-E-N-N-K-L-A-U-S-E-R@gmail.com.
Jeff:
All right, well, thank you all very much. This has been great, really enjoyed it.
Satauna:
Thank you, Jeff.
Bree:
Thank you.
Stephen:
Thank you, Jeff.
Roy Samuelson:
Thank you, Jeff.
Jeff:
Over the years, it’s been really great to have all these artists on the Blind Abilities Podcast and to have them all come together for this entertainment round table, it’s really been an honor to have them here talking about the entertainment world, how doing what they do, carrying out their passions, fulfilling their careers, and bringing awareness to blindness, through their voice, through their actions, through their work in such a positive light. I have to tip my hat for what they’re doing for the blindness community. Be sure to contact your state services for the blind, your voc rehab, and find out what they can do for you. Live, work, read, succeed.
Jeff:
A big shout out to Chee Chau for his beautiful music. He follow Chee Chau on Twitter @LCheeChau. And most importantly, I want to thank you the listener. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed and until next time, Bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share
-What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.
Jeff:
For more podcasts with a blindness perspective:
Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com On Twitter @BlindAbilities
Download our app from the App store:
‘Blind Abilities’; that’s two words.
Or send us an e-mail at:
info@blindabilities.com
Thanks for listening.
Contact Your State Services
If you reside in Minnesota, and you would like to know more about Transition Services from State Services contact Transition Coordinator Sheila Koenig by email or contact her via phone at 651-539-2361.
To find your State Services in your State you can go to www.AFB.org and search the directory for your agency.
Contact:
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