Podcast Summary:
In this reflective and energizing episode of Wellness Wednesday, hosts Beth Gustin and Robin Ennis join Jeff Thompson to dive into the overwhelming noise of modern life and how it contributes to burnout, anxiety, and emotional exhaustion. Through honest dialogue, they explore the pressures of uncertainty—from shifting politics to economic instability—and how it impacts our ability to stay grounded. The conversation unpacks the difference between burnout and compassion fatigue, offering practical strategies for staying present, reclaiming small moments of joy, and embracing self-care—even in 5-minute increments. With humor, warmth, and relatable stories (like reorganizing coffee mugs or escaping into comedy), this episode reminds listeners that it’s okay to take breaks, limit news intake, and find connection in unexpected places. Whether you’re stuck in analysis paralysis or feeling the weight of “too much to do,” this conversation may give you ideas on ways to help you breathe, reset, and move forward with confidence.
Check out all the Wellness Wednesday episodes.
Show Hosts:
Robin Ennis on the web at www.robinennislcsw.com
Beth Gustin, LPC, NCC, EMDRIA Approved Consultant, CAGCS, PLGS
Www.transitioningthroughchange.com
You can message Beth and Robin by calling 612-367-6093. They are looking forward to hearing from you!
Full Transcript
Beth: So if you’re just joining us.
Robin: We’re embarking on an interesting topic.
Beth: We’re in the middle of a conversation with Geoff Thompson with Gustin and Robin Ennis.
{Music}: Well, this Wednesday with Beth and Robyn, I’m gonna settle it down. Oh, Singer: yeah. Put your feet planted on the ground. Wellness Wednesday.
Beth: Aw, you got so much to do. Where do you start? So you don’t start anything.
Robin: If you set limits, then maybe at least I can kind of give you a break from the level of stress that may be occurring in that way.
Jeff: There’s a thing called sound to noise ratio, and it’s like how much stuff is just noise?
Beth: Anxiety is the future. Depressions the past. Stay present.
I also wonder about things like is Medicare cutting access to telehealth services?
Robin: Right. Yeah.
Beth: And the impact of that. You know, I think there are definitely things that are going to happen. And even if they don’t, there’s the potential of the anxiety currently of if they do happen.
Robin: Right.
Beth: How do we navigate that? I attend a Ethics and Insights monthly thing that the attorney that I work with for private practice puts on. I really appreciate her doing that. Shout out. Julie Jacobs is amazing. We talk about risk management, how to make our practices safe, how to keep our clients safe, how to protect our license, all that stuff. But part of quote unquote risk management. I think this is true for all of us, no matter what we are trying to manage is self-care. Yeah. And so I think one of the biggest things we can do for ourselves during this time is figure out what does your self-care look like and how can you get it right? Are we doing intro or just jumping in?
Robin: I heard Jeff press record so I have no clue.
Jeff: Yeah. I think one of the biggest things about this administration is you don’t know. Yeah. I mean, it’s a lot of threats, a lot of fear. I think that works with corporations, that works with businesses, too, that they can’t predict. They can’t predict that they’re going to get the lumber from Canada at a certain price anymore. So they’re all sitting there day to day instead of like, futures in the next six months. We want to. Well, who knows what’s going to happen. Same with the people with jobs.
Beth: Well I think about tariffs. We’re going to have tariffs. Oh we’re not going to have tariffs. We’re going to have tariffs or we’re not going to have tariffs. Oh we’re going to have tariffs again. That yo yo is keeping people on the edge of fear and anxiety as well. And that’s just one aspect.
Jeff: I think when you first mentioned I think Robyn you first mentioned burnout.
Robin: Yeah. Actually it was Beth that mentioned it..
Jeff: I thought that was a good one because we all go through that. It’s like, why haven’t I done this or why am I doing this? Is it analysis paralysis? You know, just were you just thinking about it all the time and you’re not doing it, or are you running at 80% sound to noise ratio, where all the sounds are there, but you’re not getting anything done. You’re only doing the 20% where it should be. Get A, B and C done and move on. But sometimes it’s just sit there and paralysis.
Beth: Or is it you got so much to do. Where do you start so you don’t start anything.
Jeff: Exactly.
Beth: Or even like simple mundane tasks. Like for me, I’m noticing I have a routine that I do at the beginning of each month, and I’m behind and I’m like, yeah, yeah, I gotta get that done. What? I’m going to sit here and read this book instead, because it’s more interesting to me and that’s not me. And so I think it’s being aware of also what I love to read a book, but I usually do my work first. Um, you know, but it’s, it’s what are your signs? How do you know you’re getting burned out? And I want to separate something for those people who are listening and helping professions. We have what’s called compassion fatigue, and we have burnout. And there are two different things, and both can be very possible. We’re discussing burnout, I think, here today. But compassion fatigue is basically what we would also call vicarious or secondary trauma. So when you’re helping professions and you take on other people’s stuff because of the nature of what you work with, and you take more and more on and don’t have good outlets and good support systems for that, you can get compassion fatigue. You can become very complacent. You can become more short with those that you serve and just don’t have the empathy bandwidth to be the present person that you would like to be. Burnout, at least the way I understand it, is more of a wider kind of systems level. I’m just exhausted. My productivity has gone down no matter what sphere of life we’re talking about. I just don’t have energy to do anything. If that makes sense. I’m not defining that well, and I could pull up definitions because I have them. But you know, that’s there is a difference in those two things.
Robin: There is a difference and you define them really well. I actually did a presentation for one of my classes on the differences between compassion fatigue and burnout, I do think. Yeah, exactly. You did that. You said it really perfectly. So I do feel like and especially with burnout, I feel like it is on a systems level. Right. And so you can be burnout both personally and professionally. So professionally be the systems level would be your place of employment. But personally the systems could be your family. If you feel like you just have a lot of responsibility and there’s no outlet, know where to turn to re-energize yourself. You can get burnt out. And that can also cause you to be short with people. And that’s where I feel like more so on the personal family systems level that I’m noticing a lot of my clients, including myself, right? Being burnt out, especially with a lot that’s going on in society today that Jeff, Beth and I were, were talking about. It can be a lot to to deal with. And I think, Jeff, you mentioned paralyzed and Beth, you mentioned yo. So both of those I feel like add to personal burnout, especially if a person already has anxiety because they feel like the ground is on shaky ground and there’s no stability, so it already feels like a yo yo. But it can feel even more that way. If you feel like things out of your control are going to be taken away and like benefits and like your income may be cut, how do you sit with that? And yeah, how do you sit with that?
Beth: I think there’s been a lot of potential upheaval over the past week, and part of it is not knowing how things are going to look in three months and six months. Like Robyn said, you know what benefits what? I hate to go this direction, but what rights might be taken away, what access to care, what barriers might be put in place that we can’t foresee that are going to drastically impact how we function day to day? And I just want to take a second to validate. Your anxiety is justified and it’s understandable. And we have to find a way to the best of our ability to not live in fear. In my opinion, a lot of things are out of our control. They feel like they’re out of our control. And so I think, how do we sit with that? How do we cope with that? And that’s why I was saying earlier, I think it’s really about self-care and self-care. There’s actually different domains of it, which we spoke about in a previous podcast. And the goal is to actually have good self-care in all six domains. I don’t think any of us does, and that’s okay. But the the bigger, larger goal, I think, in my opinion, is what can you do even if it’s five minutes a day? What can you do repeatedly throughout your day to keep yourself grounded, to keep yourself feeling as in control of the things you can control as possible?
Robin: Yeah, that’s very true. And I have to check myself as a supporter, as a therapist, because when I mentioned self-care and I talk exactly like you talk about baths, is what taking it one day at a time or even one moment at a time. But sometimes I sit there and I’m like, wow, I feel like I, I wonder if that’s enough, right? Because I sit there and I listen to my clients and that level of fear is okay. I’m already struggling financially. What will that look like? I can’t take on any more financial strain. I can’t take on any more of my benefits being cut, or the price of my HOA going up, or the price of food going up. And so I and this is my own stuff, is that I sit there and I’m like, I feel so I feel empathy for them. And it’s like, is that level of self-care enough, you know, to make it? Which it is. But that’s where my I have to ground myself in those moments from wanting to help my clients, but not necessarily knowing how to to where it’s making a difference.
Beth: I think that’s one of the biggest challenges. A lot of us, as therapists are experiencing is how can we best support our clients through this, when we ourselves have our own stuff that we’re sitting with? And a lot of this we can’t help with. It’s out of our scope of practice. We legitimately don’t have the ability or the means to help. Yeah. How do we help? And I do want to highlight there is benefit in talking about this. It doesn’t always solve everything, but it can definitely help. Give an outlet give a release. At the same time, I think it’s equally important to make sure you’ve got something you can do that takes your brain out of this space. So you’re not just spinning and thinking about all the what ifs and what am I going to lose? And if you don’t know what that looks like for you, explore. Find it.
Jeff: Yeah. Hey, everyone, this is Jeff. I think what you guys are talking about is just. I got so many things coming at me right now. Like grieving when someone dies. You all sudden it’s like you just flip your thought to yourself. You put yourself in. Like, wow, that’s that’s happened. That person’s my age or something of that nature. And you start really evaluating how do you make the best of what you got going? Then with the differences that are happening in politics right now, in the world right now, companies, corporations and all that not knowing, like you said, Beth, three months down the line. Well, some of us we may be dependent upon, let’s say, Social Security, your income, your HMOs. As you said, Robin, those insecurities, all those things have confidence now, become insecurities in a sense, where you are thinking about them. And it’s kind of a fear, like, how stable is my foundation? Is it turning to sand or my still on concrete? But we don’t know. And if you start dwelling on that, keep listening to the news and stuff. You can just spiral into this spot where you’re going to isolate yourself, like we were talking about last podcast or two ago. And how do you self-care for this? How do you look at what’s solid? What can you do? This is a great topic right?
Robin: And I’m glad you said that. Everything you said, but especially at the end how you mentioned about the news. So that is one thing that I suggest as a form of self-care is to limit the amount of news. It’s always good, of course, to be informed, but really be mindful of how much information is coming in, because I think that if you set limits, then maybe at least I can kind of give you a break from the level of stress that may be occurring in that way.
Beth: I agree, and I recommend the same thing to my clients and for myself. I want to be informed and I don’t want to be inundated. And I think one thing that can help for those of us who are feeling like it’s just too much coming at us. Turn off notifications for your news apps. Then you can decide when you want to check in with the news, and you can check in for half an hour a day. If you want to set aside half an hour and read headlines or watch your favorite news source, that’s okay, but turn it off and intentionally do something else afterwards so you’re not sitting with the heaviness. If that brought up that for you, you’ll do something to recalibrate yourself.
Jeff: Write something that just hit Minnesota is the Doge. I think it is. Is looking into Minnesota hiring practices, basically talking about the state employment, the largest employer of Minnesota. And they’re looking at rules if they something like affirmative action that if tops of those lists are women disabilities, people race and see if we’re in compliance with the national. And when it’s just so vague like that, you’re just wondering, what does that mean for anybody that’s not listed in that little list? You know, it’s like it’s not a little list. It’s a huge list. So if you dive into it, it hasn’t happened yet. They say they’re going to be doing it and it just leaves you unsteady. I think there’s so many areas in my mind that are not as solid as they were a year ago. I didn’t really have to think about certain things as much as today. It’s like it impacts you a little bit. And yeah, like what you said, how do we turn it off? I mean, not just turn off the notifications and all that. How do we move forward confidently?
Robin: And that’s the key word. Confidently.
Beth: Confidently. Yeah. And I think part of this has to do with how do we support one another in the ways that we can. If you do want to get more involved, you know, what does that look like? Do you want to go to protests? Do you want to get involved at a local level? For some people, that’s actually self-care because they feel like they’re doing something about a situation they don’t like. Is it going back to bed and pulling the covers over your head? You know, and I’m kind of laughing, but that’s okay if you just want to shut the world out for a day or two. Okay, but please come back to us. It’s okay to take breaks. It’s okay to escape into a good book. It’s okay to escape into music, you know, or art or whatever you do. It’s all about balance, I think, right now.
Jeff: I hope Wellness Wednesday is not the cause of this.
Robin: What do you mean?
Jeff: Oh, you said please come back to us like we’re sending them down this road trip.
Robin: Yeah, I do like that, though, right? Is coming back to us because I tell my clients it’s okay to sit in whatever feeling you have, whether it’s sadness, depression or anger, just making sure that you don’t get stuck and that you move through it. So, Jeff, I have clients and I was telling them that I have clients who listen to us, and one of them fell asleep and woke up to the sound of our voices. And she thought that she was hearing things because she heard my voice particularly. So in a way, it seems like we’re a calming force to help nudge people in a positive way, but I think that it is good to feel whatever you need in that moment, whether it’s listening to a podcast, whether it’s like, that’s just staying put. For me, I like to listen to a good movie or a good funny show comedy. I feel like laughter can be a good dose of medicine. Or sometimes I may listen to a drama, depending on what I’m feeling like, because also I feel like certain storylines I’ll look to see to in a way to where I feel like, oh, this fits, this is what I’m going through, or you know, where I need that level of empathy, but from a media versus a person.
Beth: So I think laughter is crucial all the time, but especially right now, because laughter has a ton of physical benefits, as well as mental and emotional benefits for our health and well-being. And it just feels good. Yeah, I always joke if I can laugh harder to make my abs hurt. I’m doing something right. You know, and we haven’t. We don’t typically find that just belly laughter that just goes on for a while to be like, oh my gosh, my face hurts. My stomach hurts. Yeah that’s a good laugh. Mhm. If we can’t get there can we at least get to that chuckle or you know like just something. Right. And there is a I laugh it’s from laughter yogurt or where it comes from. But if you just start making the sounds of laughter like ha ha, hee hee. And you do that enough, you start laughing at yourself because you look kind of silly. But you know, if you can find ways to make yourself laugh, if you can’t laugh with someone, if you’re more isolated, find ways to laugh because it does change a lot of the chemicals in our brain and helps us feel better.
Jeff: I heard someone laughing, and it almost drew me right into that same area that they were in. I heard it and without thinking, I migrated that direction. It’s contagious and it’s a good spot. And I just found a stick on Apple TV. It’s a comedy and it’s only like 38 minutes long each episode. But it’s my time away from everything else, and I can just zone in. And I’ve been looking for other types of shows or I don’t want to say mindless, but just something that just where you can get into or there’s, you know, development of characters. You can schedule that into your day, even though it comes on at a certain time each week, you can still pick it up when you want to. Don’t have to be there that moment. Making time for yourself is, I think, very important.
Robin: Owen Wilson.
Jeff: Mhm.
Robin: I like that show. That’s what I’m watching now actually it’s one of the top rated shows on Apple TV. And so that’s a good point right. Comedies can be only 30 minutes. So it doesn’t take that much time but enough time to kind of boost your mood a bit.
Jeff: Release that canister of pressure. I don’t know what you call that. It just builds up and pretty soon you’re just doing a figure eight, like when you’re cleaning your bedroom or something like that. You want to take the dirty dish or something that you find. You go to the sink. Then you start cleaning all the dish then and you don’t get your bedroom done. And it’s just like analysis paralysis. That’s what we were talking about a little bit, is you got so many things to do, and you just sit there in that whirlwind of all these things to do that I’m not going to do any of them or you don’t decide not to, but you end up not doing any of them. And you’re just like content with that kind of right.
Beth: Except you aren’t, because then you get frustrated with yourself. At least that’s what I see and what I experience like, well, now I’m just grumpy because I got nothing done and wasted the whole day. Okay, but you might have needed that day. It’s okay. Right? You know, take it. Take a rest day.
Jeff: After five days in a row that might want to look at that again.
Beth: That’s a problem. But you know, a day once a quarter it’s okay, you know?
Jeff: Oh, yeah.
Beth: We need to recharge and we need to listen to our body, listen to our brain. But yes, if you do that on a more continuous basis, that is a problem. That’s a concern. But, you know, then I go back to okay, so pick one thing and break it into stupid small chunks like so small that you’re like, oh my gosh. Yeah, of course I can get that done. Duh. Okay, good. Go do it. You know, because that’s going to get you moving forward.
Jeff: There’s a thing called sound to noise ratio. And it’s like how much stuff is just noise going on. And you’re just sitting there going, yeah, I gotta, you know, do that. I’ll clean the junk drawer and that stuff in the fridge needs to go out. Well, wins garbage, you know, and you’re still sitting there with your phone in your hand, like you’re going to be scrolling, but you’re just scrolling through your brain, like with some stuff, just looking at the captions and not really digging into one little thing. But if you just actually stop the noise and just go do A, B, and C and take a break and go do what you want to do a little bit, because you accomplish that and then start building up another A, B, and C for the next day or for later on.
Robin: Which is more in the present, because you just said stop the noise. And so, especially with anxiety, when it’s just constant noise, it causes you to not be present in the moment. Yeah, I like that.
Beth: I appreciate you bringing that up, both of you, because part of this, I think, is staying present. You know, we don’t want to. They say anxiety is the future. Depression’s the past. And there’s some, I think, truth in that phrase. But if we can stay in the present moment, it’s much easier to cope with what is happening in the moment, because much of what we worry about does it help us to worry about it? We’re not solving it. And so if we can stay in the present moment and keep ourselves there, we finally feel better. And it’s okay to bring yourself back to the present multiple times. All of us have to do that.
Jeff: I love that. Anxiety is the future and depression is the past.
Robin: Mhm. Mhm. Yep.
Jeff: That’s a good t shirt.
Robin: That is a good t shirt.
Jeff: Now Wellness wednesday.com.
Robin: No
Jeff: I’m just kidding.
Beth: We like the new side hustle.
Robin: Yeah I like that. Yeah. Awesome.
Beth: We should sell t shirts I like it.
Jeff: At least a coffee cup.
Robin: I agree and I love mugs so I’m a mug collector, so I agree. There you go. Uh, Jeff, you’re the the producer, the creator.
Beth: We’ll put it in braille.
Robin: I like that.
Jeff: My shelf for the coffee mugs. I just noticed if you don’t turn the handles just right, you can’t get them all in there. I was wondering, did our coffee mugs just grow? Did someone add a cup, or did we find them all.
Robin: Right. Yeah.
Jeff: I love different coffee cups.
Robin: I do too. Yeah. Just like you said, Jeff. I’ve got to try and turn these different ways so I can fit more in here. And so, yeah, that’s what I think.
Beth: If we’re going to make this a shirt, we should do. Anxiety is the future. Depression is the past. Stay present. Yeah, you have to have all three lines on there, right?
Robin: Yeah.
Beth: Or a mug or. I like the.
Robin: Mug. Yeah, I like them.
Beth: On the mug and print on the mug.
Robin: There you go. There you go.
Jeff: Yeah, I like it.
Beth: Anyway, I digress.
Robin: I was just gonna say anything else before we wrap it up.
Beth: I’m going off on coffee mugs, so I think we went down.
Jeff: Yeah. That’s it.
Robin: All right. Well, as always, if anybody has comments or suggestions on how you stay present in the moment or challenges that you may have staying present in the current climate, or if you think that the mug idea depression is in the past, anxieties in the future. If you think that’s a great idea, we want to hear from you. But until next time, take care.
Beth: Take care and stay grounded.
Jeff: Thanks for listening. Until next time. Bye bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] –
When we share-
What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities