Podcast Summary:
In this Wellness Wednesday conversation, Beth Gustin, Robin Ennis, and Jeff Thompson slow things down to ask a deceptively simple question: what does “I’m fine” really mean? From aging and identity shifts to vision loss, assisted living, and feeling quietly pushed to the sidelines, the group digs into the unspoken grief that can come with life transitions. They talk about how losing roles, routines, and independence can chip away at a person’s sense of purpose—and how often those feelings stay hidden behind polite responses. With warmth and honesty, they explore inclusion, belonging, and the deep human need to be seen, heard, and asked for our thoughts. The episode is a gentle call to listen beyond the surface, to make space for real answers, and to reach out—especially to older adults—before stories, wisdom, and connection fade into silence.
Full Transcript
Check out all the Wellness Wednesday episodes.
Show Hosts:
Robin Ennis on the web at www.robinennislcsw.com
Beth Gustin, LPC, NCC, EMDRIA Approved Consultant, CAGCS, PLGS
Www.transitioningthroughchange.com
You can message Beth and Robin by calling 612-367-6093. They are looking forward to hearing from you!
Thanks for listening!
Beth: So if you’re just joining us.
Robin: We’re embarking on an interesting topic.
Beth: We’re in the middle of a conversation with Geoff Thompson Beth Gustin and Robin Ennis.
{Music}
Wellness Wednesday with Beth and Robin, going to settle it down, Oh yeah. Get your feet planted on the ground. Wellness Wednesday.
Jeff: What I was saying is that level of fine, you know, ten years later or 20 years later, your level of fine is a lot different. It looks a lot different.
Robin: And then are you really fine? Because if that’s what y’all are talking about, like when people say I’m fine.
Jeff: Yeah.
Beth: Like, what does fine mean? Kind of like defining what fine means.
Robin: Feelings inside, not expressed.
Robin: Okay, so I’ve got it. I’ve heard two different ways. So my deceased boyfriend. I would always say I’m fine. And he’s like, are you really fine? Because for you, I think that that means something different. And so I feel like and I think we learned well, we talked about this, I think in grad school where it means feelings inside, not expressed. Um, so people just automatically say I’m fine, even though if they’re not fine. And I think now that equates to like my clients will be like, I’m okay. And I’m like, are you okay?
Beth: Are you though.
Robin: Right? Yeah, yeah. Your voice kind of says something else.
Beth: You don’t sound very convincing, right?
Jeff: It’s your first line of defense.
Beth: It is. It’s just a standard response we all give.
Robin: Mhm. Yeah.
Jeff: The thing is when you’re we’re talking about ages what was fine ten years ago, you know physically you know get up walk around or but is today you’re fine because you accepted your a little older. You’re not you know jumping running hopping and skipping every day you know.
Robin: Right.
Jeff: But I’m fine.
Beth: I’m fine.
Robin: Yeah. So I attended a virtual training yesterday on how, as a therapist to support aging clients, one thing that they were saying is to reframe aging. Like, don’t view it as something being wrong with us as we get older, but rather, what are you gaining from the aging process? Because even though even if our abilities change as we get older and people still say, yeah, but it’s fine, but it’s not really fine. Again, you have to really know the person and pay attention to their demeanor to really realize that it can make people sad if they realize that that transition is starting to occur and they’re losing and they don’t realize what they’re gaining.
Beth: Though I fear that my trainings as well, too, and I think we talk a lot about identity shifts as we get older, you know, as we are downsizing to move into a senior living community, we have to let go of a lot of tangible objects that define who we are, or if we had to get rid of um, or end a career because of vision loss. And we still have reminders of that around, we have to let go of those to downsize. And so then we’re grieving that loss of career again or we’re grieving, you know, that change in our life and who we are. And we have to redefine who we are as we age. And I agree, it’s helpful to look at what’s been gained. And I think it’s helpful to remind people who are older, like the wisdom that they have, that that they can still share and the just the depth and breadth, breadth. I can’t say that word anyway. Um.
Jeff: I can’t edit that good. Come on.
(laughter)
Beth: It’s okay. the experience that they have, and I think they forget all they’ve accomplished over their life.
Jeff: I think you get to a point where you start to see that the conversations don’t involve you in certain tasks that you used to do. And so you start to feel excluded.
Robin: I know we talked about this before in terms of aging and independent living and all of that. I like where we’re going now, like more. So talking about diving deeper in terms of the emotion behind the loss of the home or whatever it may be. I don’t think we talked about that the last.
Beth: There’s a lot of unspoken grief, I think that can come with aging, and I’m not sure that always gets acknowledged. You know, having to leave the home you’ve lived in for years or whatever it’s been. Having to leave the garden behind that you tended to and cared for and loved so much for years, because you can’t have that where you’re going. Or you have to rebuild it in a much smaller space.
Robin: Or even Jeff, which I think you were headed, is even, you know, the conversation changes or it becomes nonexistent. So I feel like assisted living or nursing homes can become a place where maybe older individuals feel like they’re placed there and then forgotten about.
Jeff: My daughter is a nurse and she works at a place like that. And she says that’s commonplace, that they don’t have any impact on society anymore. They their thoughts, their ideas just aren’t listened to or heard. And the family just goes about their business and no one comes around or talks to them and they don’t listen. I get it. My stepdad just got to the point where he cut down on his driving. He doesn’t drive anymore, and now he’s kind of isolated. And so how do we rearrange driving for that situation for groceries and everything, you know, within the family structure and stuff. And everyone’s adjusting to that. And but him himself, he always liked to just get out and tutor around, you know, just pop in in the driveway. Hey, thought I’d stop by or I’ll be there in five minutes, you know, or something. And that’s all changed.
Robin: Yup. It’s that sense of purpose. And I think that that could be a good thing for assisted living or nursing homes to take into consideration how to be able to help people find their purpose. Because in society, you have more opportunities when you’re out in the world. Okay. My purpose is to volunteer. My purpose is to work or whatever it may be. But how do we channel that into a facility where people don’t necessarily go out into the world at all, or as much as they did?
Beth: I agree. I think it’s learning how to find your purpose as like, oh, I’m a good friend to other people that I, you know, talk with at breakfast. Um, I am someone who still likes to walk, you know, and but I think it’s really those purposes don’t add up to what the purpose used to be. There’s definitely a gap or emptiness. I think that that is experienced. And how do you how do you find a fulfilling purpose?
Robin: Right.
Beth: Especially when we’re older and we’re losing our sight and or our hearing and we can’t engage easily or at all in many of the activities that are offered. In some places, we can’t see the cards anymore. So you can’t play cards and don’t know Braille, so you can’t read Braille cards. And sure, someone can read the cards to you, but that completely changes the gameplay depending on what the game is, and it’s not as enjoyable.
Robin: It’s not.
Jeff: Not only, blindness, and low vision has its own ability to. People set you aside a little bit, not include you in the thought process of how are we going to do this? How do you get to the Mall of America from here? And you’ll suggest something, but they just don’t listen, you know? And yet you’ve lived here your whole life. You pretty much know it by the back of your hand, even though you can’t see it, you know it. And yet they kind of let you go. So as you get older, too, they start to do that same thing that we’ve experienced in our lifetime with visual impairments that as they get older, then they suggest something and people will just nod and say, yeah, sure. But slowly it just eats away at a person that they’re not included. They’re not they don’t feel of worth anymore.
Robin: That’s true. And it got me thinking of a client. And so like, for instance, Beth, you mentioned whether it’s cards or games or whatever and how changing of physical capacity, whether it’s visual or, or whatever, maybe kind of can create more isolation. And so I think, too, that facilities need to have more training on inclusion, because again, even people who are in environments like that and who aren’t able to participate in activities that they have, I think that’s still there, kind of set off somewhere and not necessarily able to participate fully like they they want to. And that kind of goes along too, with what you’re saying, Jeff, is as you start to add different layers to age, ability or whatever it may be, the more lack of inclusion that exists, it can take a toll on a person and it can be even more harder to adjust to. And I think that’s why maybe older individuals have, you know, more thoughts of not wanting to live or feeling like they don’t have reasons to live.
Jeff: I just hope that other people who may be listening to this, if they’re not in this situation or anything, we’ll recognize that in people who are older than them, people don’t want to talk about it because there’s nothing that.
Beth: I was just going to say that.
Jeff: oh, go ahead.
Beth: Just the generationally speaking, I hope we see a shift in this over time. But currently, our older generations don’t talk about these emotions and feelings as much because they’re raised, you know, not to talk about it or keep it within the family or whatever. The cultural belief around that is, is. So getting people who are older to open up and share more and be comfortable with that. I think it’s also something we all need to find ways to do, so they feel comfortable sharing that they maybe don’t want to be here anymore, or can’t find their purpose, and are really sad about that. Making it safe to talk about.
Jeff: When I was teaching it was always meet the student where they’re at. And I think people I don’t want to say should people could actually accept people for where they’re at and meet them there by opening up the conversation to someone like, you know, right there, I don’t know what the true words, Beth, you’d probably know more, but how, do you start that conversation with someone and you just want to meet them where they’re at?
Beth: And I think it circles back to how we were talking earlier. It’s like, how are you today? Well, fine. Well, are you really you know, let’s let’s talk about that. Like, what does fine mean today? How are you measuring? Fine. My clients will come in and I’ll be like, so how are you doing today and how are you doing right now? And they’ll say, I’m good, but the tone of voice won’t match that. And I’m like, oh, you sound so convincing. Are you sure about that? And they’ll laugh and say, no, actually, I’m horrible. And I’m like, okay, that sounds more, you know, more true to your tone of voice. Let’s talk about that, right? You know, and I try to do it, you know, gently and with a little bit of humor, but it’s like we can tell in people’s tones of voice if they’re trying to mask something or trying to make us believe that they’re fine.
Jeff: I’d like to see a skit type of thing where either you have pictures or just the voices of a 12 year old 18, 24, 36, 45, 60, 70, 80 year old person. And they’re all saying they’re fine.
Robin: Right.
Beth: Yeah.
Robin: Yeah.
Jeff: What is fine?
Robin: Right, exactly. And what is okay. Because we talked about that some people will replace I am fine with I am okay. And that’s why I like the new slogan. It is okay not to be okay. well it’s fine not to be fine. I had to say that in my head. It’s fine not to be fine, but I think that we need to provide space for people to. A lot of my clients will say when I say, how are you? And they’re like, well, do you really want to know? Because a lot of times that it just becomes a routine where people are like, how are you? But they don’t necessarily really want to go, you know, they want that answer, oh, I’m good, or whatever it may be, and just keep going throughout their day. But I think we need to change that shift. If you’re going to ask somebody, how are you? Are you ready to provide that space for the answer that they give versus just making it a part of a generic routine.
Jeff: And to think someone is actually interested in how you’re doing?
Robin: Mhm.
Beth: Especially with the older population, you know, again, they may not have anyone who comes to visit them when they’re living at a in assisted living or a nursing home. And so they don’t have people who can often give them that space to really answer the question fully.
Robin: And, you know, honestly, the thing that just popped in my mind is with any type of identity change, we all are going to age, hopefully, right? We all are going to get to that point. And so I think that when people realize that they potentially are going to get older and what that may look like that causes fear for people. And so when people get fearful, they tend to not engage. And I think that’s why maybe some people don’t go and their loved ones who are in assisted living or nursing homes because they may see themselves, you know, getting to that point.
Beth: I think fear holds a lot of people back from being able to be more authentic and hold space for that reason. It’s like, oh my gosh, what happens when I get there? How am I going to handle it?
Robin: Mhm.
Jeff: You know as a guy there’s I mean women have it too. But as a guy societal expectations like hey let’s build a shed you know and guys get together and accomplish something I guess you know somehow they get a shed built and stuff like that. Well, as you get older there are going to build a shed and hey, you want to come along? At least they bring them along. Probably has some words of advice to suggest. Yeah, If you can include people into stuff that you’re doing that some people probably just write them off now, but at least include them in in the conversation and ask for ideas. Like you said, Beth, there’s a wealth of knowledge there.
Jeff: Yeah, and I think it helps all of us like to be included. All of us like to be asked what our thoughts are. And so even if they can’t help you build the shed, they can definitely tell you how to build the shed.
Robin: Yup, and I mentioned this before, um, that I feel like it. Inclusion is very important. But also to going hand in hand is when you include people, when you truly include people and make them feel like they’re participating or giving something back, that creates a sense of belonging and a sense of belonging is one of Abraham Maslow’s core needs that we have in order to function as human beings.
Jeff: With sense of belonging. I mean, those are stages, like when you’re asked to drive somewhere, you know, you just got your driver’s license, or when you’re older and when things change in your life. And all of a sudden, here’s another person asking you a question for your advice and stuff, and that doesn’t stop. So I like that. That got brought up.
Robin: Yeah.
Jeff: What are we going to talk about?
Robin: There you go. All right.
Beth: No, I was just thinking, you know, with this episode, I would be curious to know from our listeners, you know, how kind of two things. How do you define fine when someone asks, how are you and or how do you feel included, or how what would help you feel more included? Kind of a multi-pronged question there, but what are your thoughts on this topic? I mean, I think it’s so common and I’m thinking about like even attending a gathering where I don’t know people and I get sat in the corner by the one person I do know and told that, you know, they’ll get my food for me or they’ll come back and visit in a minute, and I don’t want to sit in the corner, you know.
Robin: Right.
Beth: So I think sometimes we can experience this isolation in a crowd at any age, but I think we experience it more as we get older.
Robin: That’s true. And I just want to add, well, two things. So the two questions that Beth posed, we really do want to hear from you. We always enjoy the feedback that you give and we incorporate it, you know, into what we talk about. So yeah, definitely let us know. I also wanted to add is that Beth, it made me think about with me being an introvert, it’s hard for me to go to. I like being invited, but it’s hard for me to go to larger social gatherings, especially not having eyesight and not knowing the environment, because people do tend to sit me off or sit you off in a corner somewhere. But it got me thinking. And that’s how my friends who don’t do that, that’s how I know that I truly belong with them and in that social circle, because I know wherever I go and they’re around like, I’m going to feel included. I’m going to feel like I belong. I’m not going to be off somewhere, you know, by myself. But yes, definitely reach out. Jeff, do you have anything else to say?
Jeff: Reach out to the people that you know who are older and just ask them how they’re doing and, you know, honestly, have some time for them. I don’t like the how are you doing? And they don’t break a stride as they keep on walking by. It’s like, if you don’t say anything, are they going to actually stop? I didn’t hear you or you know, or are they just going to go? And that’s it’s kind of just like a new way of just saying, hey?
Robin: that’s true.
Beth: There’s a program I’m thinking of called Social Call, and I hopeful it’s still in existence because I haven’t heard much about it in the past year, year and a half or so. But it’s called Social Call, and it matches volunteers with individuals who are older based on interests and different commonalities they may have. And the volunteer calls once a week for half an hour to an hour long conversation and just builds a connection. And it’s only one phone call a week. But it can. That one phone call can give someone something to look forward to if they don’t have people coming to visit and they don’t have people taking a vested interest in their life.
Robin: I haven’t heard of that. That’s good to know. I haven’t, I’m glad that they have something like that.
Jeff: You know, one of the sad things I had occurred to me in a sense is when we go to the airport, we have to go around this corner. And when I could see, I’d see the cemetery. It’s the all the white crosses I think that would be for the armed services Fort Snelling area. But they have a big cemetery, and it’s laid out in such a way that when I could see you can’t miss it because it’s geometric. It’s every time you look, glance over it, it just changes its view. And I always whenever we visit, you know, tombstones or stuff like that, you can’t ask them questions. It’s like all that information is like hard drives that don’t work anymore. All that data, all that information, like, how do I build a shed? I’m sure there would be 30 arms that could rise up if they could, you know. They’ll talk to you. So not that I’m saying don’t. Don’t wait till it’s too late. But there’s a lot of information in people who are older who aren’t effectively pounding the hammer, but they probably have experiences. So I like the idea of reaching out to people. Yeah.
Robin: Yeah.
Beth: yeah.
Jeff: I’ll probably edit that out.
Robin: Why?
Jeff: Well, I don’t know. It’s just it’s kind of morbid a little bit, but it’s the truth. You know, once people are gone, all you have is your memories.
Beth: And I think you should keep it because it’s a reminder of, like, hey, we’re not all going to be here forever, so don’t let time just keep going. There’s a line in the song, it’s like, “you can do this until you can’t”.
Robin: Right.
Beth: So don’t put things off because eventually you won’t be able to do whatever it is.
Robin: Or I was thinking, I’m like, man, you know, I wish I would have asked my grandparents questions about their parents. The history is gone and I can’t go back. And I think especially because now I’m on ancestry, I’m like, huh, Yeah, I wish I would have been more inquisitive.
Jeff: Ask when you can.
Robin: Ask when you can.
Jeff: While. While you can.
Robin: Yeah, I just want to, Jeff, it was cool. I had an aha moment because I was like, Our airport doesn’t have a cemetery. Like, what is he talking about? And I was like, oh yeah, he’s in, he’s in Minnesota. Not not Colorado. I was getting confused and I’m like, and I was like, oh yeah, Jeff doesn’t live in Colorado. Yeah.
Jeff: But I do live.
Beth: Yes you do.
Robin: Yes you do.
Beth: Well, on this note, we’d love to hear from everyone, whether you have a question to ask us or a comment or a thought or a complaint. We take those too. Um, but we’d love to hear from you. Until next time, take care and stay grounded.
Robin: Until next time, take care.
Jeff: Thanks for listening. And until next time. Bye bye.
{Music}
: Oh yeah. Wellness Wednesday, with Beth and Robin, gonna settle it down, , Get your feet planted on the ground.
Jeff: For more podcasts with a Blindness Perspective, check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com and be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you want to leave us some feedback, give us a call at (612) 367-6093. We’d love to hear from you. Thanks for listening. And until next time, bye-bye.
[Music] [Transition noise] –
When we share-
What we see
-Through each other’s eyes…
[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]
…We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities