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The Wood Working for the Blind #WW4B Series is about Blind wood workers honing their craft or just getting interested in the art of wood working. We are also bringing awareness to the #RebuildEHC to gain support for rebuilding Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat. The largest fire in California history did not spare EHC and the spirit has not been broken. Rebuilding EHC for future generations is the goal this year and next year and that is what is going to make this time so memorable. You can support the #RebuildEHC by going to
www.Lighthouse-SF.org/enchanted-hills/rebuilding/
In this WW4B podcast we talk to Brett Holly, former Apple employee, woodworker, and family guy. Brett left Apple after 21 years and was already building his 40 x 40 work shop when he lost his sight. Brett found the Lighthouse of San Fransisco’s wood working work shops and has been coming back ever since.
I met Brent when I was assisting master craftsman George Wurtzel at the Annual Wood Working for the Blind event at Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat. Brett and I worked on setting up jigs on various machines as he wanted to learn about making consistent cuts. After a few days of work we took a break outside the Tactile Arts Barn, of which survived the fire, and conducted this interview. Join us as Brett tells his story and gives us a glimpse of how he sees the future and how he takes on the challenges of blindness.
You can find out more about WW4B on the web at www.WW4B.org
See complete Transcription below.
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Transcription:
Brett Holly: A Million Dollars of iPads in His Driveway, WW4B, Aira and #RebuildEHC (Transcription Provided)
Brett:
I didn’t know there was a group for blind woodworkers so it was so much cool stuff to learn and find other people who trying to do the same thing.
Jeff:
Introducing Brett Holly.
Brett:
So they delivered about a million dollars worth of iPads to my house, my sons and I set up a kind of production line and engraved all these iPads that were given out to the team at Apple.
Jeff:
Worked with Steve Jobs for over 20 years.
Brett:
You know when you try and tackle it all by yourself it feels daunting, but when you you know can find others who’ve been through it and you can you know learn from the things that they’ve done, it’s amazing how much you know I’ve gotten out of every time I’ve come to, you know an event with other blind people, that it’s, there’s just so much to learn.
Jeff:
From augmented reality.
Brett:
I personally believe that’s going to be a game-changer for those in the blind community because to do augmented reality the phone has to be aware of its environment and the fact that it can do that and track things means that it’s also an enormous platform for being able to do you know, assistive technology solutions, so I, I think there’s great things available now but we ain’t seen nothing yet.
Jeff:
To the latest technology of today.
Brett:
There is lots of technology that can take pictures for example, and, and tell you what it is, but you can’t typically ask questions on it right, and I think the thing that’s interesting with Aira is that you’ve got person there who you know can do more than just tell you what it is they’re seeing but they can, can give other information witch may not be readily available otherwise.
Jeff:
And a bit about blindness.
Brett:
Wow you’ve got to get over that first step of, I hate to say it, but feeling sorry for yourself, you know this has happened, it’s uh, that’s everybody goes through it, it’s tough, I think that’s obviously the critical first step.
[Music]
Jeff:
Welcome to Blind Abilities, I’m Jeff Thompson.
[Music]
In this series of Woodworking for the Blind we’re trying to bring awareness to Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat in Napa California upon Veeder mountain, and that’s part of the Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired of San Francisco.
Over the last couple months we’ve all heard about the fires in California and it did not spare Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat, now it’s time to rebuild, we got a podcast from Tony Fletcher coming out and it talks about the history of the camp, talks about his time there and all that has happened and all that they’re doing to rebuild, and that’s hashtag rebuild EHC.
So while I was assisting George Wurtzel at the WW4B, I got a chance to meet up and talk to him about a great wood workers, there’s a lot of great people and I’m glad they took the time to sit down and we just chatted a little bit about their story.
So today I’m gonna bring you Brett Holly, now he worked at Apple, he’s a woodworker, but more than anything, Brett is a great guy.
We’re sitting on the deck outside the tactile art barn where the rest of the woodworkers were in there sawing away creating projects talking learning.
Now Brett, he was at Apple at a unique time, he was part of the group that helped bring Steve Jobs back to Apple, and purchased the next operating system, and Brett is probably the only person in the world that had a million dollars worth of iPads dropped off in his driveway.
Brett had quite a few stories to talk about, but it was really neat to sit and work with him, work on some woodworking projects, and when we found time to take a break, we got this interview.
[Music]
Welcome Blind Abilities, I’m Jeff Thompson and I’m out at Enchanted Hills Camp, part of the Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired of San Francisco.
And we’re up here at the WW4B, which is the Woodworkers for the Blind organization and they’re having their I believe it’s their sixth annual event and this is a second year in a row that we’ve had it out here at Enchanted Hills and I met up with Brett Holly and would like to introduce you to Brett, how are you doing Brett?
Brett:
Great, thanks.
Jeff:
So Brett how did you come to know WW4B and Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat?
Brett:
Well I actually ran into the woodworking training with the George Wurtzel here at the Enchanted Hills last fall.
I came because I’m recently blind about two and a half years, and so when someone told me it was possible to be able to do woodworking blind, I’d been doing it for years before I lost my sight, and I came up here last fall and met George and learned that I could, the things that I was concerned about, that there were ways to learn how to do things measuring, and other things in a safe way, and during that time they, was when I learned about WW4B, I didn’t know there was a group for blind woodworkers so it was so much cool stuff to learn and find other people in trying to do the same thing.
Jeff:
Now Brett in your situation, you already built your entire shop and then you lost your eyesight.
Brett:
Yes, yeah I’ve been building up a shop over a number of years and have been doing lots of woodworking before I lost my sight and I was kinda bummed, I figured and I wouldn’t be able to do it anymore but, and I was very pleasantly surprised that it’s just like everything else being blind there’s, it’s a matter of just learning new ways of doing things and you know it was very little that you can’t approach just like I said, new techniques, and it’s great being here with particularly with others that are, you know very experienced in doing this of, learning all the techniques and tricks, and of the trade to do it safely and get the right results you want to get.
[Sawing sound effect]
Jeff:
Consistent results and that’s achievable because you’re gaining the skills and the confidence from being at wood shops and learning from others.
Brett:
Yes.
Jeff:
Just like many other woodworkers here have experienced themselves.
Brett:
Yes.
There’s really nothing that I’ve got as far as machines that I, I can’t still use, probably the biggest you know tool in the tool bag, is the click rule of course, you know measuring and marking is, is the hardest thing that’s, you know typically as a sighted worker, woodworker is really the heart of everything it’s, you know getting consistent results, but the click rule and and some other marking techniques that we use here are you know, work just as effectively, and frankly I’m now sharing with some of my sighted woodworkers of, Gee you really ought to, you know, take advantage of this click rule thing, it’s really awesome.
Jeff:
Yeah that’s that that’s the tool that got me back into woodworking.
It’s like a template maker in a sense.
Brett:
Yes, it’s like a storyboard or story stick, you know for making things, it’s great.
Jeff:
What projects have you been working on yourself in your shop?
Brett:
My wife is a middle school teacher so I actually spend a lot of time doing material prep for small projects for middle school kids that are trying to do some small woodworking projects and probably over the last few months that’s probably the most significant, but for myself I’ve been working on some new shop jigs, trying to make a new table saw crosscut sled, and a few other jigs that I like to use when I’m working, and then frankly spending a lot of time reorganizing my shop so that I know precisely where everything is, it’s, I think that’s one thing that’s really important is really having a clear picture of where all your tools are, where all the where the bits are, where everything that you’ve got and unfortunately during the period of time I wasn’t using my shop everybody else in the family thought oh what a great place to dump stuff so, it’s taking a little while to get things back organized again, but trying to get ready for the Christmas and holiday season coming up, and you know, looking at some projects, doing some things on the lathe, and some other small projects which will be you know, fun for holiday gifts.
Jeff:
What suggestions or advice would you have for someone who is interested in woodworking who is also facing vision loss to encourage them that they might be able to do something?
Brett:
Well a couple of things.
I think certainly surround yourself with people who’ve been there.
The WW4B is definitely a great resource for that from the woodworking perspective.
The other is get in touch with the lighthouse site, I know in San Francisco has them but I’m sure they’re available elsewhere.
Get a click roll, learning how to measure is probably one of the most important things that you know you can do, you know between that, and listening and, you know to others and what they’ve learned, you know if you’re brand new to word working I would encourage something like this, like what they have here at the Enchanted Hills camp, they’ve got a bigger beginners class, as well as a number of classes through the year.
I know there are places throughout the U.S. where there’s you know, other programs, definitely jump into that, but if you’ve done it before, like I said WW4B you’ll find people who all you have to do is ask, gee I used to know how to do this, how do I do it now?
99% chance that somebody on that list will be able to help you.
Jeff:
You can find that at WW4B and the four is the number four so it’s WW number four B dot org, on the web, and it’s a list serve and people just keep adding and answering and sharing and helping others.
Brett:
And there’s a bunch of resources on the website as well with recorded woodworking magazines and other articles that are I know available on the site.
[Saw sound Effect]
Jeff:
Brett you had an occupation before woodworking, well not before woodworking, before WW4B, before you went blind.
Could you elaborate on that a little bit?
Brett:
Sure I worked it at Apple for 21 years, was a senior director of engineering for operating system technology, and for Apple’s Final Cut studio product, after that I left and r an engineering for the company called Livescribe that made a digital pin.
In fact, I know Lighthouse for the Blind in San Francisco used that technology for doing tactile maps interestingly enough, so, and I’ve been in the, you know in the tech industry for the last thirty five, forty years I guess, however long.
Jeff:
Oh yeah, and iOS I tell you, Apple has been a big game-changer for everybody who has accessibility built right into the iPhone iPad and all their devices.
Brett:
Certainly you know being on that side of it now I’m really appreciating the thought and effort put into the accessibility.
There’s you know, like everything it’s, they can always make it better but, that consistency across the platforms and, and the fact that it’s just there, you know whether you’re using an Apple TV or an iPhone or the Mac you know, it all works.
Jeff:
Now there’s a machine called the CNC machine which is a device that, wel,l why why am I trying to explain it, could you tell people what a CNC machine is?
Brett:
Sure CNC machine which, CNC stands for computer numerical control, basically a computer controlled routing device you know, think of a handheld router or milling machine but it’s controlled by a computer so it basically can move the head and the bit up and down and side-to-side.
It’s usually used for making things repetitively, these days you can actually do so much because of the computer aspect of it to do things like carving into wood and to repetitively make and cut out you know different materials, it’s a great resource for these days and becoming very affordable for the hobbyist.
Jeff:
And it doesn’t engraving correct?
Brett:
Yes and will do, definitely do engraving, there’s some called V carve which is a, it’s a bit that has a very sharp v, v tip and will, cuts into the wood and can you know carve out signs, and even do what you might consider to be elaborate in carvings now with, and it would pick from pictures and such.
Jeff:
I overheard George Wurtzel who directs this program up here for Enchanted Hills Camp, at the art barn they call it, he was talking about bringing you out with another gentleman to get voice over, not voice over, but speech working on the programs, you excited about that?
Brett:
I’m very excited, although I am an apple guy, the most of the CNC hardware runs you know off of Windows machines.
So you know what we’re trying to do is make sure that we can find a configuration where, either use NVDA or Jaws or something to be able to get control of those tools on Windows to be able to use the CNC.
Jeff:
I also heard one other story that was pretty intriguing that a lot of people leaned in to, you engraved something on to an iPad one time, a couple of them I guess, could you could you tell our listeners that story?
Brett:
Sure, I said I worked at Apple a long time and was involved in, in the launch of the iPad, the original iPad, and then after the iPad was launched Steve Jobs, you know wanted everybody who worked on that project to to get one as a momento of the hard work that was put into creating that product, and they really wanted to make sure it was special so they you know wanted Steve’s signature on the back.
They couldn’t find anybody to, to do that and in my shop I have CNC machines as well as some lasers and such.
They finally came to me because I was the only person that they knew that could actually put the engraving in so they delivered about a million dollars worth of iPads to my house, my sons and I set up a kind of production line, and engraved all these iPads that were given out to the team at Apple.
Jeff:
So every iPad had to go back in the exact box?
Brett:
Yeah it had to be taken out, engraved and put right back in the same box so the serial numbers matched yes.
[Hammering sound effect]
Jeff:
So how is your family adjusted to your losing eyesight, you know, just two and a half years ago, that must have been an adjustment for everybody?
Brett:
Yeah I think you know anybody who’s you know, gone through this new, the big thing is you know, there’s a lot to learn yourself but there’s a lot that the family has to learn.
Making sure they put things back where they’re supposed to, and not leaving things out where you can trip over them and that kind of stuff and I think that’s probably the big, been the biggest challenge is just kind of learning the new patterns.
Jeff:
And your shop is not a storage area?
Brett:
Yeah well that’s, that’s a current thing that everybody is being, is learning.
[Laughter]
Jeff:
What advice would you have for someone who is not readily or has yet to accept their blindness?
Brett:
Hmm, wow, you’ve got to get over that first step of I hate to say it but feeling sorry for yourself, you know this has happened, it’s uh, that’s, everybody goes through it, it’s tough.
I think that’s obviously the critical first step and then you know being open to the fact that frankly there’s almost nothing you can’t do, there’s just new ways to learn to do it, that there are lots of people out there, you know who’ve been through this.
I think it’s like anything, and when you try and tackle it all by yourself, it feels daunting, but when you, you know can find others who’ve been through it and you can, you know learn from the things that they’ve done, it’s amazing how much you know I’ve gotten out of, every time I’ve come to, you know an event with other blind people, you know it’s, there’s just so much to learn that people have done, it’s like you know trick,s and techniques, and things that are remarkably simple but you just don’t think about them or realize when you’re trying to solve it all by yourself, that can really help, help you along a lot.
Frankly the other thing is the technology that’s you know, available now is just incredible you know, there’s obviously the smartphones, there’s lots of apps and things like that that can help, there’s new technologies coming like AIRA, which is an assistance tool, there’s other things that you know seem to be on the horizon, frankly I’m, I suspect that we’re gonna see some things coming out of the next-generation phones and this augmented reality technology that’s part of the next generation of the iOS you know, Apple OS operating systems, I personally believe that’s going to be a game changer for those in the blind community because, part of the augmented reality technology is not just for game,s but to do augmented reality the phone has to be aware of its environment and the fact that it can do that and track things means that it’s also an enormous platform for being able to do, you know assistive and there technology solutions.
So I, I think there’s great things available now but we ain’t seen nothing yet.
Jeff:
You mentioned AIRA, the virtual navigator for the blind, that’s a product that works with the glass and an agent, and you subscribe to that.
Brett:
Yes, yeah I signed up early in the year effort when I heard about it at one of the conferences and it’s a great solution, they’ve basically, you wear a pair of glasses, it just happens to have a camera on it and that transmits basically whatever you happen to be looking in the direction of to an agent live, they see it as in real-time and you can communicate with them and they’re communicating with you and basically giving you information.
They aren’t telling you what to do but more giving you information so that you can, you know make the right decisions you’re on your own as to you know, as crossing the street, or you know trying to find a business, or you know more interestingly and sometimes is finding where the entrance to a business is because you’ve gotten close to it with your GPS soft, but you may not know exactly how, you know where to get in you know the building or whatever so, it’s amazing, and I know there’s a lot of things that people are doing you know with it now that are you know they’re just beginning to touch on some of its capabilities.
I know I’ve used it even in my woodshop a little bit for when I’m trying to do certain setup, some things like that where I would just like to you know confirm the things or what I expect so, you know it’s not just getting around but having basically that extra information that someone who can see you know the details can, can share with you, it’s been really really useful.
Jeff:
Instant access to information.
Brett:
Yes, with a brain attached to it because there is lots of technology that can take pictures for example and and tell you what it is, but you can’t typically ask questions of it right?
And I think the thing that’s interesting with AIRA is that you’ve got person there who you know can do more than just tell you what it is they’re seeing but they can give other information which is, you know may not be readily available otherwise.
Jeff:
Well thank you very much Brett for sharing your story and coming to WW4B out here Enchanted Hills Camps, it’s been great meeting you and thank you very much.
Brett:
Yeah, pleasure meeting you and it’s been a great time this week.
Jeff:
Spent a great few days with Brett Holly setting up jigs, that’s something that he had in mind so we set up jigs on the giant bandsaw so he could repeatedly make the same thing over and over again, and it worked out pretty good.
That was his goal that what he set out to do and that’s what he achieved, and it was also great to meet all the others, and that all happens at an Enchanted Hills Camp and Retreat, part of the Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired of San Francisco, and remember to go to their website, support them if you can, with what you can, and remember hashtag rebuild EHC.
You can find the website at www.lighthouse-sf.org, and be sure tho check out the other woodworkers for the blind podcast, that’s hashtag WW4B.
We thank you for listening, hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye.
[Music]
[Multiple Voices]
When we share what we see through each other’s eyes, We can then begin to bridge the Gap between the limited expectations and the realities of Blind Abilities.
For more podcast with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on twitter at BlindAbilities, download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that’s two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com, thanks for listening.